"Hot Toasters" vs Scatterwounds

gregw9 · Post by **gregw9** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:32 pm

I've had some time to compare the pre-scatterwound "hot" toasters from the 90's to the new scatterwound toasters on contemporary Ricks. I had a '98 660/12 to compare with a '15 1993+; and, a '96 325V63 to compare with a '15 350V63.

I've compared the guitars on my AC-15 and Fender Mustang amps at various volume levels and settings, and with different effects. My OPINION - that is, to my ear - the scatterwounds sound better on the 12's, with more jangle and chime. The hot toasters sound better on the 6 string guitar. The 325V63 drives the amp better and works better with overdrive and distortion. The 350V63 with the new toasters sounds good clean and strumming chords. For anything more aggressive the 325 with the hot ones sounds better.

Again, just my opinion. The 660/12 sounds great, but the 1993+ sounds magnificent. The 325V63 rocks, and the 350V63 jangles. I recently sold the 660/12. If I were to sell one of the 6's I'd sell the 350V63 and hang on to the 325V63.

IHeartRics · Post by **IHeartRics** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 2:06 pm

Totally agree that the hot toasters sound great on 6's but not so hot on 12's.

Medicus1963 · Post by **Medicus1963** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:01 am

Hello,
i agree not completely! Basically i made the same experience, but you can not compare the short scale 325 with the regular scale 350. I think the sound is Never the same even with the same pickups! and i had several 325 and 350 guitars to compare.

regards
Peter

wmthor · Post by **wmthor** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:14 am

IHeartRics wrote:Totally agree that the hot toasters sound great on 6's but not so hot on 12's.

I'm yet another one in the camp that agrees that the "hot toasters" sound great on a six string ('96 1997 LH MG) while the scatterwounds sound great on a 12 string ('00 360/12 CW LH FG.)

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:23 am

IHeartRics wrote:Totally agree that the hot toasters sound great on 6's but not so hot on 12's.

Agreed. The reason is that the "hot" toasters, with more winds, have more inductance. This has the effect of boosting perceived mids, which may be desireable, depending on the player's repertoire, but at the same time with intra-coil capacitance, lowering highs. Again, may be desireable from a lead guitar perspective, depending on the player's repertoire, but the combination of more mids and less highs is the antithesis of what the vast majority of players look for in a Rick 12 - the jangle - less mids, sparkling highs.

8mileshigher · Post by **8mileshigher** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:17 pm

wmthor wrote:
IHeartRics wrote:Totally agree that the hot toasters sound great on 6's but not so hot on 12's.
I'm yet another one in the camp that agrees that the "hot toasters" sound great on a six string while the scatterwounds sound great on a 12 string

I agree with Chip and Richard that the Scatterwounds sound better on the 12-stringers for the jangle and the Hot Toasters compliment the 6-stringers better.

JakeK · Post by **JakeK** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:51 pm

I've played many Rickenbackers, 6-strings and 12-strings, and have owned a fair share of them as well. All of the past ones I've owned have had "hot" toasters. As far as the "not mine" Ricks, both 12 and 6 strings, have had both sets of toasters.

The hot-toasters work well for a 6-string because there is an added presence of mid-range and bass, which lend themselves to playing with some sort of dirt in the signal, be it an overdrive, vintage fuzz-tone, a meet-in-the-middle sounding distortion or even just a turned-up tube amp. Hi-gains are also good for dirty tones (hence the name, Hi-GAIN, I guess), but the hot toasters have always been a perfect compromise. They do that pretty clean thing fairly well, too, but they are also great for playing heavy. An extremely versatile pickup that cuts through a mix nicely. With the lower impedance and lack of mids on the scatterwound toasters, a good dirty sound will be a little harder to dial in. When you do get it just right, it can sound pretty good. While *I* like the sound of an overdriven scatterwound, most (non forum members/Rick players) don't. Many folks in the Ric community will agree with me. That said, while an overdriven Scat sounds good, it's no match for and easier to obtain with the hot toasters.

The scatterwounds have less so, but I don't really finding myself playing a fuzzed out 12-string that much (I'm NOT saying that it cannot be done, I simply just don't do it). Scatterwounds are good for playing cleanly and it's very easy to dial in a pleasing clean tone on your amp with scatterwound toasters. With hot toasters on a 12, it's a little harder, but it can still be done.

My point: I'm pretty much in the same boat with everyone who posted thus far that hot toasters are best for 6-string and Scats are better for 12-string.

Best 6-string I've played: 1986 1997 with hot toasters (I also owned this guitar for 5 years)
Best 12-string I've played: 2000 360/12 Carl Wilson signature with Scats (owned by a forumite)

Dream 6-string: I want my 1997 back!
Dream 12-string: a special two-pickup 1993Plus

girllennon76 · Post by **girllennon76** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:22 pm

I never had the chance to play scatterwounds and probably wouldn't want to. For RRF members not in the loop, I am the former owner of the 325v63 Greg is referring to. I've lived and breathed that guitar's tone for 14 years and always preferred a bit of drive and distortion when I played it. I could get clean sounds, but there's something about driven hot toasters that makes you want to play more. It's actually a very versatile little guitar and you can get some decent blues and jazz colors from it. too. Just noodle with amp settings and balance the guitar accordingly to taste. When I played with my occasional jam group (not a gig, just in someone's living room), I used nothing more than a reverb tank and a small Vox amp. Simple set up but pure heaven.

I hope to one day get it back because playing anything other than a Ric is uninspiring at best.

wim · Post by **wim** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:50 pm

I had very hot toasters in my 6 string 360 V64 and I didn't care much for them as they made the guitar sound like a cheap knokoff.
Very muddy, not brilliant at all.
Maybe better for heavy distorted sounds, with the higher gain, but then there are far more better configurations around to do that.
They were about 15K ohm

It was even too fat to fit in the cover

before:

after:

IHeartRics · Post by **IHeartRics** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:23 pm

JakeK wrote:.... While *I* like the sound of an overdriven scatterwound, most (non forum members/Rick players) don't. Many folks in the Ric community will agree with me. That said, while an overdriven Scat sounds good, it's no match for and easier to obtain with the hot toasters.

The scatterwounds have less so, but I don't really finding myself playing a fuzzed out 12-string that much (I'm NOT saying that it cannot be done, I simply just don't do it). Scatterwounds are good for playing cleanly and it's very easy to dial in a pleasing clean tone on your amp with scatterwound toasters.

I actually play my 12 with the scatterwounds with a Rat distortion through my 50 watt Hiwatt. It sounds awesome. With the hot toasters it was kinda muddy and lacked clarity.

squirebass · Post by **squirebass** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:18 pm

So, what would a 2014 350v63 have on it, scats or hot toasters?

Ric5150 · Post by **Ric5150** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:10 pm

squirebass wrote:So, what would a 2014 350v63 have on it, scats or hot toasters?

Scatterwounds would be stock.

kennyhowes · Post by **kennyhowes** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:20 am

I have, on one of my guitars, a Hot Toaster (+/- 14Ω) in the bridge position, with the .0047mf cap, and a vintage toaster in the neck position (+/- 7.4Ω).

Now THAT'S a winning combination.

Folkie · Post by **Folkie** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:59 am

kennyhowes wrote:I have, on one of my guitars, a Hot Toaster (+/- 14Ω) in the bridge position, with the .0047mf cap, and a vintage toaster in the neck position (+/- 7.4Ω).

Now THAT'S a winning combination.

The best of both worlds!

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:30 am

kennyhowes wrote:I have, on one of my guitars, a Hot Toaster (+/- 14Ω) in the bridge position, with the .0047mf cap, and a vintage toaster in the neck position (+/- 7.4Ω).

Now THAT'S a winning combination.

I've done that also on my 6 string 350V63 BBR. I didn't have a RIC hot toaster though, but I had a dead toaster, so I had a friend wind it hotter. It is about 12k and used 44 gauge PE wire. I think formvar wire is probably a better choice but I am going to stick with this one for awhile still. It is a little thinner and brighter than I would like out of the bridge position however. I also have a toaster wound with 43 gauge formvar as hot as I could which is about 9.5k, but I haven't tried that one yet on this guitar. I think the scatterwound toaster in the neck and a hot toaster in the bridge is definitely better than scatterwound toasters in both positions.

I think many of the 50's Capris used toasters with 43 gauge or 42 gauge wire on them and that is why they still sound great with 4k-5k on them rather than the extremely thin reissues that had 3.5k of 44 gauge wire or whatever that were put on the '58 325 reissue. I've never seen one of those older pickups myself, but have heard reports from people I know in the biz who have examined them. I plan to experiment with this further in the future as I get more dead toasters to play with.

Greg

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