Q's on Horseshoe's Vintage vs. Re-Issue (Bass

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:53 pm

Rick is Jason Lollar's business partner.

http://www.horseshoemagnets.com

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:02 pm

The Rickenbacker horseshoe pickup generally employed tungsten steel although I won't say that some alloys didn't include cobalt at some time. However, the chemical analysis we did on 60's magnets verified the use of tungsten steel alloy.

I'm not in a position to say why tungsten is desirable in magnetic materials but you can read any of the dozens of technical articles and references to it with this Google search:

Google +Tungsten +steel +magnet

Apparently it has something to do with "domain walls", whatever those are.

I find the last paragraph of this particular reference interesting due to the similar era and branch of technology that lead to the guitar pickup:

Alnico as replacement for Tungsten Steel

Another interesting historical note:

Early permanent magnets

Further references:

Capacitors, Inductors, Resonance

History of Magnetism

thx1955 · Post by **thx1955** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:44 pm

Hi Rick, welcome to the Ric Forums, really interersting information, many thanks for sharing it.

kbhag · Post by **kbhag** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:24 am

quote:

"You don't honstly think that that 4001 hasn't been built, rebuilt and then refitted, more than once. over the years."

Hi Jim!,
"Oh, I know Chris's 1999 body (wood) has been worked on. (Wall/Contact paper on-off, shaved down, painted, headstock repair) Electronics? Hummmm, that’s a question. I do remember reading somewhere that the bass was wired in stereo. Was the pickup ever repaired or re-charged? Let's ask the board.

John Hall might know.

raiello · Post by **raiello** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:54 am

Thanks for the nice welcomes y'all ...

Heat Treating (Hardening) steel ... converting it to martensite (a body centered cubic configuration) ... leaves the steel SUPER brittle.

To get around this in tool making, knife making, etc ... the steel is then "Tempered" ... converting a percentage back to austenite (a face centered cubic config).

This is fine for tools ... but austenite is a "non-magnetic" configuration ... therefore not something you wanna do with magnet steel.

The addition of tungsten adds an additional measure of "structural strength" to heat treated steel.

As far as "Domain Walling" ... various alloying metals will form "Carbide Precipitates" during the heat treating process. Tungsten, chromium, vanadium, molybdemum, etc ... react with carbon ... and these carbides alter the steels characteristics.

Even with the tungsten alloying, these rascals are still quite brittle ... I know of several folks who actually "snapped" the magnets in half ... tryin' to level out the upper flanges.

As far as the history of magnets goes ... cobalt was first added to tungsten steel ... to dramatically increase its coercive force ... in 1917.

Just tryin' to help ... I love Ricky steel guitars and their pickups ... just ask my wife ... ha, ha

dice · Post by **dice** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:42 am

RICK,
how come neodymium is not used in ay wy for pick-ups? it is in the magnet pad i wear on my lower back,i have 2 degenerated disks.that type of magnet helps my painful situation.
p.s. it is good to see another ITALIAN on site!

raiello · Post by **raiello** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:55 am

I use NIBs (neodymium-iron-boron) in my favorite magnetic assemblies ... but I don't wanna "spam" here.

I just saw y'all talkin' 'bout my favorite subject ... and wanted to join in ...

Not alot of folks like to "talk horseshoes" ... Ask my wife ... ha, ha

dice · Post by **dice** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:04 am

RICK,
could you rewind a set of high gains with a neodymiun magnets....go ahead SPAM , I am interested!

agplate · Post by **agplate** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:47 am

I have been told by Jim Mouradian (he built Squire's "green thing" ) that "you wouldn't want Squire's Rick because there's so much wrong with it." I took it partially as tongue in cheek although he did say that Squire's horseshoe's magnet is so weak (a three compared to a modern pickup's rating of twelve, I'm sorry I don't know the units he was talking about) that they make up the difference in boost by use of power amps. Does this make any sense to the experts here?

henny · Post by **henny** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:54 am

Squire's RM1999 IS done in.

I mean, even Chris says himself, the pickups are near enough DEAD.

However, as Chris recently said - The fact that his bass is so inefficient makes it nothing like anything else he's ever played or heard, thus - it is perfect.

And the "green thing" (not to be confused with the Forum's "Green Monster") is called a CS-74. You see the black swirly marks on the bass body?

They spell out "CS" Not many people notice that.

Man, its time I dragged him onto this forum. I'll do it this year.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:22 am

I heard something live by Yes recently and his Ric sounded really thin, no bottom or body at all, unless it was a board recording and he was really loud that night and they just wanted to accent the treble aspect of his bass. It was a recent recording but I don't know what it was. I've heard old live stuff by them and his bass sounded unbelievable and I'm not even a fan.

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:30 am

I saw Yes a few months ago and his Rick was quite loud and deep. Of course he could have been playing a 4001CS for all I know.

iamthebassman · Post by **iamthebassman** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:34 am

"They spell out "CS" Not many people notice that."

That's funny, it's the first thing I noticed about that bass.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:37 am

Bob ... I think you are talking about Yes live at the House of Blues ... it is a poor mix ... we are used to hearing Yes with a loud full bass ... and that recording is lacking ... a few tracks are good ...

one of the reasons I quit playing out with my 60's ric was it is hard to balance when you switch from a modern hot bass to an old 60's Ric ... you need a whole different gain structure and eq settings ... and distortion and effects will be different ...

raiello · Post by **raiello** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:37 am

Frank,

I only make magnets, magnet assemblies and steel guitars ... I don't wind.

Using NIBs for "conventional" pickups ... has proven challenging to folks that have tried.

There are some out there: Fishman Acoustics and Q-Tuners ... for example.

But NIBs are so strong for "under the string" pickups (acting as pole pieces) ... you gotta use very small amounts ... usually in concert with steel.

Fender is makin' some "noiseless" guitar pickups using Samarium Cobalt ("rare earth" magnet similar in strength to NIBs) ... so its a "happinin' field" ... again, pun intended.