Hi-Gain = Distortion??

[theonemanband]

Hi
Please excuse me if this has been covered before, but after thirty years of playing acoustic 12 string guitars, I am playing catch up and trying to absorb as much information about electrics as quickly as possible!
Following a wrist injury I found my acoustic 12 string a bit painful so decided to be a "Judas" and go electric and settled pretty quickly on a 620/12 that I find a joy to play (I recently had the blend switch modified to be a master volume), but I just have one issue.
I like a clean sound and although I understand how valves distort when wound up, I don't really understand "crunch" or "overdrive". I have been trying to find a small manageable combo amp (30watt??) that would give me an absolutely "clean" sound but it seems every one I have tried seems to sound slightly distorted when I play the 620 flat out (despite setting the amps input gain correctly).
So the question is, will any model of electric guitar give a slightly distorted signal when volumes are fully wound up or is it just a feature of Ric "high gain" pickups also, any recommendations for a good small combo for an nice CLEAN undistorted sound with my 620/12
Apologies for what may appear to be dumb questions but I am a (Judas) electric novice

[jsm610]

A good small combo for a nice CLREAN sound:
A Jazz Chorus will give you a clean sound:
http://www.rolandus.com/products/jc-40/

Toaster pickups will be cleaner than hi-gains, but if you roll the hi gains off with your master volume on the guitar it will be similar. With that said, hi gains flat out through a Jazz Chorus is a very clean sound in a relative sense....

[wim]

Hi
Please excuse me if this has been covered before, but after thirty years of playing acoustic 12 string guitars, I am playing catch up and trying to absorb as much information about electrics as quickly as possible!
Following a wrist injury I found my acoustic 12 string a bit painful so decided to be a "Judas" and go electric and settled pretty quickly on a 620/12 that I find a joy to play (I recently had the blend switch modified to be a master volume), but I just have one issue.
I like a clean sound and although I understand how valves distort when wound up, I don't really understand "crunch" or "overdrive". I have been trying to find a small manageable combo amp (30watt??) that would give me an absolutely "clean" sound but it seems every one I have tried seems to sound slightly distorted when I play the 620 flat out (despite setting the amps input gain correctly).
So the question is, will any model of electric guitar give a slightly distorted signal when volumes are fully wound up or is it just a feature of Ric "high gain" pickups also, any recommendations for a good small combo for an nice CLEAN undistorted sound with my 620/12
Apologies for what may appear to be dumb questions but I am a (Judas) electric novice

If your pickups are close to the strings your sound may distort because of the stronger signal they feed into the amp.
If you want a weaker signal adjust the pickups to a lower position.
You can do this by turning the middel screw on the sides of the pu clockwise.
Your signal will be weaker but also a bit less 'alive'
Toaster pickups might be a good - but expensive - option for you, as these and 12 string rics seem to be a match made in heaven.

[jdogric12]

Yep, sounds like you'll be happier with toasters, and the Roland JC suggestion is a great one. The JC-120 is famous for getting super loud without breaking up.

[theonemanband]

My Local music store have been kind enough to loan me a Roland JC-40 to road test.After trying it at home, I have to say the sound is excellent; clean, loud and relatively light so maybe I shall invest in one. Thanks for the tip!!

[theonemanband]

Bought it!!

All I can say is WOW!! This amp just brings my Ric 620/12 to life; sparkling crystal clear sound, great reverb and tasteful chorus...........
12 string heaven!!

Thanks again for the tip!

[theonemanband]

So, I have now got my Ideal combination........620/12 + Roland JC-40; FANTASTIC....but, I played a gig last night and encountered an issue that I've heard about, but have never come across myself before and, have no remedial knowledge of, and I'd appreciate some help please for when it happens again.

The issue was stage noise, (I believe it's called "60 cycle hum") that I understand is caused by single coil pickups interacting with venue lighting and other venue electrical circuits. Randomly moving around a couple of steps, negated the noise temporarily, confirming my suspicions that this was the problem. I understand that there may be two possible solutions, active guitar circuitry, or humbucker pickups.

Having now got EXACTLY the tone I want, what would now be the best way to go on my 620/12 in order to overcome this noise issue (as mentioned, this is only apparent in a few venues)....................Would I lose that bright "jangle" by fitting humbuckers? Is it possible to fit active circuitry to a 620/12? Would a noise gate be a simple and effective solution, or (not really the answer I want), would it be best to just ignore and accept it at the offending venues?

Thanks in advance, I REALLY would appreciate any advice anyone can offer.

Cheers.........Brian

[bvstudios]

I wouldn't be changing the pups too quick. There are other possibles, especially if the hum only shows up in certain venues. That fact makes me suspicious of the wiring in the venue, not yours. Been there, done that.

Two real quick and easy things to check which might help-

The guitar cable and the power supply cord. A break in the shielding on the guitar cord can cause the hum (even from flourescent lighting), as can a 2-wire power cord on the amp. (If the amp has a 2-wire cord, reverse it at the wall plug and see if that cures it).

Also, your amp may have a reversible ground switch. There's one on my JC-77, but it looks like someone added it at some point before I bought it. Many amps have It as part of the power switch, too.

Most times, that's enough to quiet things down in a venue prone to buzzes..

Most times.

I recall a place a country band I was part of played regularly about two decades back. No matter what we tried, our mains always hummed, the mikes bit our lips, and when the lights came up full in front, the ones to the sides browned out!. Finally, the drummer grabbed a screwdriver, pulled the 4-way box we plugged everything into and discovered that none of the four duplexes (on four separate circuits, we were told) were grounded! Nope, the whole thing was moused together using out-dated, 2-wire (green) conduit sans any ground wires. Not only that, they were ganged together in pairs through just two 100 amp breakers! Our 5,000W PA, 4 amplifiers, four powered monitors and six sidelights all pulled through those two circuits... Fortunately, the front of house lighting was on a different circuit, but I still wonder how we never had a fire. Plus, I am sure that other bands at the same venue with at least as much equipment as we had!

Next time we played there, we brought a lot of heavy-duty cables and several rolls of duct tape to spread the load around!

Sometimes, it's just not you. Trust me. Check the house out before you pull any of your equipment apart.

[jdogric12]

Yeah, I wouldn't go changing pickups. To quote Michael Bolton in Office Space, "Why should I change? He's the one who sucks." Maybe shielding the s*** out of it might help? I once had a 73 4001 with a ton of shielding in it and never had a hum.

[theonemanband]

Interesting....as advised, I don't really want to change the pickups, particularly as I've just got the sound right, I think that would definitely be a last resort; I'm really just investigating the options.
Definitely no breaks in the cables; I have always used top quality cables, and keep them in good order.
On the night in question, I did try disconnecting the earth (same as a ground lift?) but that had no effect so re-connected. I understand that all equipment connected by sound cables remains earthed anyway, via the main earth supply (to the PA for example).

Was that other suggestion to reverse the positive & negative in the wall plug or have I mis-understood that one?

For the moment, I have just put a noise gate at the end of my fx signal chain; not the best option I think, but that way (I figured) I could just use it as the situation demanded.

What about "active" circuitry as has been suggested to me by local peers; possible on a 620?

[bvstudios]

sorry Brian, I managed to miss that you are not based here in North America. I know precious little about Electrical Code rules in Britain, so much of what I said about the venue (grounding, wiring, etc) in my earlier post simply doesn't apply... however:

I still would be trying the simplest things first. What I termed the "reversible ground"(earth)in your amp may also be known as a "reverse polarity". As an example, my Peavey amp's on-off switch is a 3-position switch. Off in the middle, and two "on" positions, but the polarity of the system reverses between the two. Pretty sure your JC40 doesn't have that on the faceplate power switch (it seems to be a simple rocker switch) but I could be wrong. Or like my 77, one might be added to the rear.. and it has cut out a venue-induced 60-cycle hum more than once.

But I still think that a heavily-shielded, good quality guitar cable is the first and best place to start. Even if it doesn't help in this case, it's one of the best things in your kit, and often one of the most overlooked. If the shielding is broken, even a little, it exposes the signal wire to outside interference. The cable will still transmit the signal down to the amp, but even the smallest break in shielding can mess with the clarity. Of course, if you have more than one cable, if you're using a pedal or pedal board for example, the number of chances for a break in shielding rises exponentially.

Good luck with the rest.

[rkbsound]

One way I have cut down on hum is to eliminate electricity from my pedals. Since I don't care to rely on batteries, I use a Sanyo Pedal Juice to power my pedalboard. I see it's now discontinued, but it not only works for a very long time without recharging, it is also more convenient than plugging in the board. And in some cases cut down or totally out the hum. In some places, though, it didn't make a difference because of the poor venue wiring. Also, I just hit my tuner pedal to cut the guitar out completely when not playing. I'm sure there are other products on the market like the Sanyo: http://proav.roland.com/products/pedal_juice/

[theonemanband]

So,

worked a gig last night, fairly new building with new wiring, latest LED style spotlights. All my cabling/connections concurred with the information above and my "rig" was absolutely silent; no hum or buzzes, just crystal clear sound!!

I can only deduce from this, that, assuming all your gear, cables & connections are in good order, nothing will overcome a noise inducing room, even assuming that all their electrics are in safe order too!

I presume the moral of the story is, get yer head down, play the gig noise & all, that's just rock n' roll !!

Thanks for the advice.