Differences Between 4004Ci and 4004Cii?

[Ashgray]

Is the "measure your girth" spreadsheet still linked somewhere on here?

Not that I can find, but I'm sure someone else will post that it's not here shortly....

For whatever it's worth, here's the thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=280979&hilit=measure+your+girth

Ash

[aceonbass]

Woody, I don't think I realized (or maybe I forgot) that you were the owner of that goldguard fireglo "1957 reissue" 4004. That is one sweet looking bass, and one of my faves from Paul's book. I believe Dane had a hand in creating that one, dinnithe?

That bass was indeed one of my customs, although I'm not credited in Paul's book for it. The original owner had gotten the bass at Ed Roman's, where the bass had it's truss rods serviced via routing the area in front of the neck to remove them. A black plastic cover was screwed over the open routes to cover them. The owner was casting about here to find a solution to the resulting eyesore the work left. I suggested the '57 4000 style guard, and the rest developed from there.

[LenMinNJ]

For whatever it's worth, here's the thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=280979&hilit=measure+your+girth

The link to the spreadsheet is dead.

I slogged through the 20 pages of that thread.

At the 1st, 3rd and 12th frets the girth (circumference) of 4004 necks ranged from 11.4/11.8/13.4 for '93 4004C and 4004L, to slightly larger for a '95 4004C (11.35/12.0/13.8 ), to a high of 11.8/12.46/14.23 for a '08 4004Cii.

(All measurements in cm.)

No measurements of neck width and front-to-back in that thread, other than the '08 4004Cii:

width at nut: 4.41
width at 12th: 5.77

front-to-back at 1st fret: 2.37
front-to-back at 12th fret: 2.53

With only this very small amount of evidence, I can say that

1) the necks of 4004Cs and 4004Ls of the same year likely have the same dimensions
2) the '08 necks were large

Can anyone add more data for 4004-series basses?

[squirebass]

Woody, I don't think I realized (or maybe I forgot) that you were the owner of that goldguard fireglo "1957 reissue" 4004. That is one sweet looking bass, and one of my faves from Paul's book. I believe Dane had a hand in creating that one, dinnithe?

That bass was indeed one of my customs, although I'm not credited in Paul's book for it. The original owner had gotten the bass at Ed Roman's, where the bass had it's truss rods serviced via routing the area in front of the neck to remove them. A black plastic cover was screwed over the open routes to cover them. The owner was casting about here to find a solution to the resulting eyesore the work left. I suggested the '57 4000 style guard, and the rest developed from there.

I had no idea that the purpose was to cover a route in the body, but whatever the motivation for your creativity, I really like the way that bass looks both retro and modern at the same time! Very nice work Dane!

[woodyng]

Family picture.

Woody: You have an unusually handsome family!

Woody, I don't think I realized (or maybe I forgot) that you were the owner of that goldguard fireglo "1957 reissue" 4004. That is one sweet looking bass, and one of my faves from Paul's book. I believe Dane had a hand in creating that one, dinnithe?

Thanks,Gene,
I waxed ecstatic over the bass when it debuted on RRF,and was later offered the opportunity to purchase it. I'm still most grateful to RRF member John Luke for thinking of me when he decided to sell,as it is pretty much the ideal Rick bass for me. It also started me on upgrading the electronics with Dane's harnesses,because i couldn't believe the difference in the sound of that bass VS the maple Cii i already owned.
(Dane had made a 4001-type harness with VVTT,coil taps,and a full size selector switch for the Laredo,it sounded so much better than my Cii,that i had him make a VVT/coil tap harness for it immediately). And When i got my Cheyenne 1,once again,i had Dane make a new harness for it as well. (It was almost comically dull sounding before i swapped out the components.)

[LenMinNJ]

Thanks to you folks, I've got a '93 4004Ci on its way to me. It should arrive on Monday.

It's a candidate for a conversion to a 4004Cv57, ala Woody and Cassius. I'll ask Dane to move the pickups, add a gold old-style pickguard & TRC, and re-do the controls.

Whether I keep it or not will depend on how I like the feel of the neck, and whether I like the Walnut/Maple look.

The 2008 4004Cii MG I tried this past winter had a neck like a baseball bat. Reminded my of my old '53 Precision Bass! Worse even. Made me hurt.

I'm hopeful that this 4004Ci's neck will be more comfortable.

[jdogric12]

That should be a great player! I kind of hate to see you convert it, though... wouldn't an L or Cii do better?

Generally, mid 90's the necks went from thin to thick, and got thicker and thicker up to about 2009. They've slimmed up some, but still not nearly as slim and comfortable (to me) as an early 90's or any 80's neck (except 4002's which seem to have always been thick for some reason).

[LenMinNJ]

That should be a great player! I kind of hate to see you convert it, though... wouldn't an L or Cii do better?

What would make them better?

I'm not a fan of modifying original instruments, though I've done it twice before. To me, the 4004C is a utility instrument - nothing special about it - so I won't have any regrets about doing it. It feels to me much like the 1989 350JG that I converted into a real pretty 350JBLE replica.

[bassduke49]

I agree with Jason. Do what you want with the electronics to make it give you the sound you want, but why add an extra large pickguard over all the lovely walnut? I think once you get your hands on it, you'll find that extra thin contouring and luscious wood will change your thinking.

[woodyng]

Thanks to you folks, I've got a '93 4004Ci on its way to me. It should arrive on Monday.

It's a candidate for a conversion to a 4004Cv57, ala Woody and Cassius. I'll ask Dane to move the pickups, add a gold old-style pickguard & TRC, and re-do the controls.

Whether I keep it or not will depend on how I like the feel of the neck, and whether I like the Walnut/Maple look.

The 2008 4004Cii MG I tried this past winter had a neck like a baseball bat. Reminded my of my old '53 Precision Bass! Worse even. Made me hurt.

I'm hopeful that this 4004Ci's neck will be more comfortable.

A few observations.
I think 2008 seems to have been the year of the girthiest 4004 necks,so hopefully you will like the Ci neck better. I've actually considered having the neck pickup on my Ci moved to about 1/2"-1" from the bridge,and just keeping the bridge pickup where it is. That would eliminate the need for a larger pickguard,although some sort of cover plate would then be needed for the (removed) neck pickup route. (I also think a 50's style gold guard would look fabtastic on the walnut Ci.)
I do tend to disagree that the Ci is utilitarian,as they're relatively rare,and a discontinued model. Having said that,if you like the feel of the Ci before modding it,i wouldn't hesitate to go for what you want in making it your own.

[aceonbass]

I agree with Jason. Do what you want with the electronics to make it give you the sound you want, but why add an extra large pickguard over all the lovely walnut? I think once you get your hands on it, you'll find that extra thin contouring and luscious wood will change your thinking.

No matter what you do with the electronics in a 4004 (or 4003 for that matter) nothing will make it sound like it will with the pickups in the 4002 positions,extra thin contouring and luscious wood not withstanding. The guard is necessary to cover up the old pickup routes if you move the pickups.

[LenMinNJ]

Do what you want with the electronics to make it give you the sound you want, but why add an extra large pickguard over all the lovely walnut?

'

All a matter of taste, I suppose.

Walnut doesn't do it for me. The whole 4004 series looks kinda too plain.

And I can imagine how great that bass will look with a classic gold pickguard - as Gene noted: retro and modern at the same time.

[woodyng]

To get an idea of the gold pickguard on the walnut bodies,there's the RCA specials,although they had a much smaller,teardrop-shaped pickguard. Like i said,i think it'd look really great.

[bassduke49]

To get an idea of the gold pickguard on the walnut bodies,there's the RCA specials,although they had a much smaller,teardrop-shaped pickguard. Like i said,i think it'd look really great.

Yeah, I like the teardrop on the RCAs (try finding one ) and a few that Dane has done, but the big old-style 4000 type guard would look awful on the walnut in my opinion. I'd rather do that much modding on a plain-jane 4004L like the "V57" that Dane worked up.

[squirebass]

When when Dane is finished and Woody has his Ci, he can sell the Fireglo 1957 reissue to me!