Choosing between RIC Hi-Gain, Toaster, or CA pickup

[Freez]

Hi Rickenbrethern, I have an '85 4003 that I've owned since new. It's been my main player for most of my adult life, but lately I'm unhappy with the sound of the neck pickup. The bridge pickup sounds great; loud, full and ballsy, very Rick-like. The neck however; muffled, lacking definition and significantly quieter than the bridge. It's too muddy to use alone; I use it strictly to add warmth to bridge pickup. I'm not sure if it was always this way, I spent most of my playing time with everything dimed, but I could have sworn the pickup originally sounded better.

After reading all the positive reviews for the Classic Amplification 70's hi-gain repro, I was prepared to pull the trigger on that option. But I checked the Rick website and found that a new Rick hi-gain costs significantly less, and a new toaster is only slightly more than CA's pickup! So of course that got me rethinking things. The prices for each option are -

Rickenbacker Toaster - $160
Rickenbacker High Gain - $75
Classic Amplification - $140

I have no experience with toasters or the CA repro, nor have I played the new Rick hi-gains since they increased the windings. So I'm looking for opinions from people familiar with any or all of these options. My goals are: better definition (less mud), more oomph, guts, balls; whatever your preferred descriptor. I would like to be able to use it as a stand alone pickup, not just a mild pillow of warmth beneath the bridge pickup. I know Rick also has a humbucker, but I'd prefer to keep it single coil. I love the look of the toaster, but looks are secondary to sound and function. Not trying to "cheap out", but if I can accomplish my goal for $75 vs $140 - $160, well; that would be great. So, what do you think? Which of these would you choose, based on the criteria I'm looking for?

[jps]

Toaster.

[/thread]

[chefothefuture]

What about having your current pickup rewound and possibly a new magnet?
If you feel the pickup has grown weaker over the years it may be that the magnet has
lost some power and this could result in a muddy and weak tone.

[prowla]

Hmmm, I would be disinclined to put a toaster on a 4003.

It could be that a 3rd party one would work (I have an SD treble pickup n a Ric).

But the Ric one is what Ric put on their new Rics, right? And they sound like Rics, right?

[Freez]

Toaster.

[/thread]

Jeff, I know from my time on these boards that you are indeed well versed in general Rickery. I have zero experience with toasters. Are the current toasters significantly quieter than higains? I am looking for definition and a certain amount of ballsy-ness. Hoping those two things aren't mutually exclusive in a neck pickup.

[Freez]

What about having your current pickup rewound and possibly a new magnet?
If you feel the pickup has grown weaker over the years it may be that the magnet has
lost some power and this could result in a muddy and weak tone.

Hi John, this line of reasoning was my first thought of how to deal with this. My concern was that maybe the small rubber magnet was the culprit, so I came to the idea of replacement pickup with magnetic polepieces instead. But if it would fix my problem, it would surely be a less expensive fix. Have you ever had a Rick neck pickup rewound? If so, how did it turn out?

[Freez]

Hmmm, I would be disinclined to put a toaster on a 4003.

It could be that a 3rd party one would work (I have an SD treble pickup n a Ric).

But the Ric one is what Ric put on their new Rics, right? And they sound like Rics, right?

Paul, what is the reason you would not put a toaster in a 4003? Do you perceive some shortcoming in the toaster? I love the way they look, but sound is most important. Regarding your last line, I have no experience with the current hi gain. I know it is overwound compared to the old hi gains, so I don't know if it still sounds like a Rick...

[jps]

Toaster.

[/thread]

Jeff, I know from my time on these boards that you are indeed well versed in general Rickery. I have zero experience with toasters. Are the current toasters significantly quieter than higains? I am looking for definition and a certain amount of ballsy-ness. Hoping those two things aren't mutually exclusive in a neck pickup.

As to noise, they are probably similar, given they are both singlecoil pickups, but I have never found any problems with that in real life scenarios at any gigs or on recordings.

Here is the neck toaster in my 4004L SPC recorded through my Strymon Flint with light reverb on it. I am not playing very aggressively here with a pick, so expect more Ballz® when doing so.

1230.MP3

Bass Noodle #1230 Copyright Jeffrey P. Scott 2016 All rights reserved.

(2.1 MiB) Downloaded 221 times

[henry5]

Hmmm, I would be disinclined to put a toaster on a 4003.

It could be that a 3rd party one would work (I have an SD treble pickup n a Ric).

But the Ric one is what Ric put on their new Rics, right? And they sound like Rics, right?

Paul, what is the reason you would not put a toaster in a 4003? Do you perceive some shortcoming in the toaster? I love the way they look, but sound is most important. Regarding your last line, I have no experience with the current hi gain. I know it is overwound compared to the old hi gains, so I don't know if it still sounds like a Rick...

My preference is always a toaster at the neck. I could never get Rics to sound like I wanted until I discovered them. My 4003S8 had a toaster in the neck and sounded wonderful.I find the toaster clearer and more open-sounding. FWIW though I also really dislike the SD treble pickup (had one in my 2nd 4001CS until I got a replacement HS and it never sounded like a Ric to me) so it's all about personal preference, and of course different people will achieve different results using the same gear.

I'd certainly look into getting your pickup tested though. Several years ago the treble pickup on my main '72 started fading; it was so gradual I didn't even realise that's what was happening (I wasn't using it much at the time) and the penny only dropped when playing it against a 4000 I was looking at buying, which was twice as loud. I sent it off to Aaron Armstrong and he fitted extra magnets to the inside of the bobbin, which brought it back to life.

[woodyng]

Out of the 3 pickups listed,i would definitely NOT go with a new Rick higain if you're looking for a more vintage clarity tone.
My Modded Laredo has a toaster AND a CA 60's flattop pickup,which are very well paired,and surprisingly quiet.
As i mentioned elsewhere,You could have your old pickup rewound by CA,which is something i'm considering doing with my '72 bridge higain. But i'm not sure if the price for doing so is less than the cost of a new pickup. I believe they post prices on their website.....

[marcinkus]

I would have the pickup rewound, to retain originality.

[prowla]

Hmmm, I would be disinclined to put a toaster on a 4003.

It could be that a 3rd party one would work (I have an SD treble pickup n a Ric).

But the Ric one is what Ric put on their new Rics, right? And they sound like Rics, right?

Paul, what is the reason you would not put a toaster in a 4003? Do you perceive some shortcoming in the toaster? I love the way they look, but sound is most important. Regarding your last line, I have no experience with the current hi gain. I know it is overwound compared to the old hi gains, so I don't know if it still sounds like a Rick...

For me, it would just be the wrong period - toasters belong on pre '73 Rics.

As for the new ones, my point was really that if you walked into a shop and tried a brand-new Ric, then you would expect it to sound like one; I've not heard an outcry that new Rics just don't sound like Rics, so therefore I would say that a new hi gain should fit the bill.

[henry5]

Hmmm, I would be disinclined to put a toaster on a 4003.

It could be that a 3rd party one would work (I have an SD treble pickup n a Ric).

But the Ric one is what Ric put on their new Rics, right? And they sound like Rics, right?

Paul, what is the reason you would not put a toaster in a 4003? Do you perceive some shortcoming in the toaster? I love the way they look, but sound is most important. Regarding your last line, I have no experience with the current hi gain. I know it is overwound compared to the old hi gains, so I don't know if it still sounds like a Rick...

For me, it would just be the wrong period - toasters belong on pre '73 Rics.

As for the new ones, my point was really that if you walked into a shop and tried a brand-new Ric, then you would expect it to sound like one; I've not heard an outcry that new Rics just don't sound like Rics, so therefore I would say that a new hi gain should fit the bill.

Nah, toasters belong on whatever they sound good in, as do any pickups.

It could be argued that all Rics sound like Rics; however some sound more like Rics than others. It depends on your reference point really. Like I said before, I never played a Ric that satisfied me until I stumbled across my Fireglo pre-skunk '72, and at that point I didn't even know what a toaster was. Not that the toaster was the whole of the story, but it's a fair part of it, as proved by the fact that of the fifteen or so Rics I've owned, most have had toasters and the rest - with the exception of the 4004, which was something different - I didn't really like. Although I did play one new 4003 recently that I thought was great. Different than mine, but great.

[Freez]

Toaster.

[/thread]

Jeff, I know from my time on these boards that you are indeed well versed in general Rickery. I have zero experience with toasters. Are the current toasters significantly quieter than higains? I am looking for definition and a certain amount of ballsy-ness. Hoping those two things aren't mutually exclusive in a neck pickup.

As to noise, they are probably similar, given they are both singlecoil pickups, but I have never found any problems with that in real life scenarios at any gigs or on recordings.

Here is the neck toaster in my 4004L SPC recorded through my Strymon Flint with light reverb on it. I am not playing very aggressively here with a pick, so expect more Ballz® when doing so.

1230.MP3

Hey Jeff, if I could clarify; when I said "quieter" I meant sound output, not hiss or hum. Would you say the volume level of toaster is lower than a hi gain?

[jps]

Jeff, yes, a toaster would be quieter as it is wound with significantly less windings than a hi-gain (that's why it's called high gain ), so that is a given. Just turn up the input of your amp or recorder. Tone trumps output level.