Danger in Upside-down truss rods?

baltimucho · Post by **baltimucho** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:13 am

Funny story... A few years ago a bass player joined my band with an '84 4003. It's the only bass he had and he bought it new and never had it adjusted EVER. He hated playing it and was looking to buy a GL Jazz (which he found.) Anyway, the neck did need some adjustment from years of gigging and changing environments, so I took it my long-time luthier dude (A Gibson and Fender warranty certfied pro.)

When I picked it up a few days later, all clean and adjusted, my luthier said, "Man, I had a heck of a time getting those truss rods out! The last guy put them back in UPSIDE-DOWN! So, I had to pull them out and turn them back up to adjust at the headstock."

I was bewildered, and this experience is what led to my furious education of the RIC 4000 Series basses. So, now that I know the rods were NOT upside-down... Is this a bad thing?

I mean, since they are the "modern" style rods, and the headstock was obviously routed to accept truss rod adjustments, can there be any harm in the truss rods NOW being upside-down?

My '82 4003 has truss rod adustments at the body, but it also has the "old-style" rods and the headstock isn't routed to permit adjustments.

Just wondering... Is my friend (Can I call him a "friend" if he still perfers his GL Jazz over the 4003?) in danger of damaging his RIC.

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P.S.: I have since educated my lutheir on all that is RIC, with tons of pictures, diagrams and information from this forum.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:19 pm

I don't know but that's pretty funny. I know that the reverse can be done with 4001's with old style rods, but I don't know anything about the new ones. I have an 81 4003 with old style rods and it works and plays fine. Didn't he notice that it had a two piece pickguard and wonder why?

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:39 am

I have replaced the rods on a modern 4003 ... they cannot be put in upside down ... there is no top or bottom ... the only thing you can do wrong is put them in backwards ... so they adjust at the body ... now I am talking about modern 4003 truss rods ...

roadrunners · Post by **roadrunners** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:09 am

interesting.....

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:38 am

In my experience, the ones that adjust at the body end have slightly longer rods than the headstock types. Also, the wood is cut differently at both ends. Reversing the rods in either case may work but is a pointless exercise. This is just a guess but the change to body-end adjusters may have been a move to reduce the stress on the laminations where the neck and headstock meet. Did Rickenbacker ever use the old style rods on a body-end neck?

jaymi · Post by **jaymi** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:59 am

The adjusters at the body helps prevent separation of fretboard and neck. My 80 4003 JG is solid as a rock as far as the neck and rods go. They are quite a bit longer coming out of the end of the neck. These rods appear to be the old style rods lengthened and modified for this use.

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:26 am

By old style, do you mean the folded, flat steel rods?

jaymi · Post by **jaymi** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:31 am

Yep. They are not anchored in the neck at the headstock. At least, the one that I have does not have anchors. I think it is the same as the one you have been working on for someone. It has 2 long slits in the headstock. I seem to recall that this was changed later, like in 1985-86. The one that sold on ebay last week was one of my old ones and it had bolts under the TRC. The earliest 4003's look like mine. Do you still have pix of the latest on the work of the one that you are doing

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:30 am

Yes they used the old style flat folded TR's until sometime I think in Sept of 1984 in 4003's. I have a late 81 4003 with the old style TR's, they terminate at the body end. They can be reversed by using different blocks in an old 4001 if you are having problems. I tried it but didn't have the correct blocks.
The rods are not modified at all, just reversed with bigger blocks (2), they do seem to work better than at the headstock end. I thought it was a good idea. The blocks have a slot they fit right into and they don't tip like they do at the headstock end.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:32 am

By upside down he meant backwards Jeff. The bass must have been vertical.

baltimucho · Post by **baltimucho** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:53 pm

So... What you're saying is that turning those truss rods "back-wards" (or "upside-down", for those of us who stand upright) is no big deal.

And yes, my '82 4003 has flat, folded rods that adjust at the body with a 2-peice pickguard. Although, the pickguard I have is DEMOLISHED, so I'm going with a new 1-peice and hoping I don't have to adjust the neck any time soon.

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jaymi · Post by **jaymi** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:51 am

you can get a 2 piece from www.pickguardian.com
Tony said that he has a template for one. just FYI