Explaining the unique sound of the 360v64

fretbuzzard · Post by **fretbuzzard** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:14 pm

I’ve been able to play a couple of 360v64 6-strings, and to my ear they sound unlike every other Rickenbacker I’ve played: darker, with the neck pickup in particular bordering on muddy. I had always chalked this up to the 12k toasters, but on a whim I decided to have a look at the schematic. I was surprised to see that the 360v64 was spec-ed with 250K pots. Combined with the pickups, that might explain a lot of what I’m hearing!

So which do you suppose contributes more to the darker tone here: the pickups or the pots? If you were looking to liven up a 360v64, which would you look to change?

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:01 pm

First, these guitars may not have 12k toasters; they may use "regular" toasters. That said, it is everything: pickup windings, if they have the increased windings, which does two things: raises the inductance of the coil which we perceive as more mids, and intra-coil capacitance which cuts the top end a little bit (especially if it is a short magnet pickup because less gauss generally translates to less articulation bite); the pickup being wayyy upstream in the 24th "double octave" node position which may cancel out some overtones so the pickup sounds dark or hollow, and the 250 kohm pots that can load a little bit more of the top end to ground, compared to the 330 or 500 kohm pots, which by their nature have a higher value resistance to ground and therefore less loading on the pickup, which translates to a higher resonant peak in the frequency response of the pickup, which we perceive as jangle.

fretbuzzard · Post by **fretbuzzard** » Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:32 pm

Sure, that all makes perfect sense. Has anyone here swapped out pickups and/or pots on one of these? What were your results?

8mileshigher · Post by **8mileshigher** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:38 pm

This is a very interesting thread and I'm looking forward to seeing more comments from fellow V-64 owners on the V-64 Hot Toasters and the 250k Ω Pots

jdogric12 · Post by **jdogric12** » Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:44 am

OP - depends, what year(s)? Toasters were "hot" (12k) in the 80's, all the way up to '99 or so when they got phased in following their introduction on the limited run 425V63, 450V63 and 325/12V63, and the new 7.4k were typically called scatterwound, since they were more similar to vintage toasters. They weren't really scatterwound, but a machine approximated the "scattered" windings, as I understand it.

When did the 360V64 go away, and when were the later limited 360C63's (6, not the ubiquitous 12) introduced?

kennyhowes · Post by **kennyhowes** » Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:49 am

This model falls squarely in the period of the Hot Toasters, so my bet is that is what you’re hearing.

If your knobs are turned up all the way, it shouldn’t matter what their resistance is.

aceonbass · Post by **aceonbass** » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:03 am

The 250k pots (measuring closer to 175k), and 330k pots (measuring closer to 280k) are probably the main reason for the darker tone in any Rick that has those pots. This is why I build wiring harnesses for these with the same specs RIC used in the 60's through the 1990's, which were 500k pots for tone and 250k pots for volume.

admin · Post by **admin** » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:32 pm

aceonbass wrote:The 250k pots (measuring closer to 175k), and 330k pots (measuring closer to 280k) are probably the main reason for the darker tone in any Rick that has those pots. This is why I build wiring harnesses for these with the same specs RIC used in the 60's through the 1990's, which were 500k pots for tone and 250k pots for volume.

Sage advice, Dane. I appreciate your tone and volume.

jdogric12 · Post by **jdogric12** » Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:16 pm

Looks like the last date for orders for the 360V64 was 12/31/2000, and the last we know of rolled off the line August 2001. I'd guess that some of those got scatterwounds, but Kenny knows best. When did scatterwounds jump to other models besides the 3 in the limited run?

kennyhowes · Post by **kennyhowes** » Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:04 pm

jdogric12 wrote:Looks like the last date for orders for the 360V64 was 12/31/2000, and the last we know of rolled off the line August 2001. I'd guess that some of those got scatterwounds, but Kenny knows best. When did scatterwounds jump to other models besides the 3 in the limited run?

Without doing any solid research, I will respond with “PDQ.”

fretbuzzard · Post by **fretbuzzard** » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:13 am

aceonbass wrote: This is why I build wiring harnesses for these with the same specs RIC used in the 60's through the 1990's, which were 500k pots for tone and 250k pots for volume.

Thanks so much for lending your expertise! Is there any reason beyond tradition for your favoring the 500k/250k mix? Has anyone gone for 500k pots for both volume and tone, Gibson-style?

MatthewBrown · Post by **MatthewBrown** » Sat May 30, 2020 8:42 pm

Can anyone confirm if the Ric played on the right is a 360v64? Curious because of the R tailpiece and high gain pick ups. If it’s not, what is it?

https://youtu.be/8Kl172XqWv4

sloop_john_b · Post by **sloop_john_b** » Sat May 30, 2020 10:45 pm

MatthewBrown wrote:Can anyone confirm if the Ric played on the right is a 360v64? Curious because of the R tailpiece and high gain pick ups. If it’s not, what is it?

https://youtu.be/8Kl172XqWv4

That is a late 80’s / early 90’s 360WB (note for instance the 24 fret neck as compared to the 21 fret v64).

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