Neck/trussrod issues on '56 Combo 400

bytemonster · Post by **bytemonster** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:14 pm

Anyone with experience with these guitars? My friend has one and the fretboard is coming up at the headstock, plus the truss rod seems useless. I'v heard the only real way to fix this is to remove the fretboard and reglue it with a little backbow. I do lots of repair for myself, friends, and a few new clients (which seems to be growing), but I've never removed a fretboard yet.

Anyone?

btw...great forum! My first post

adam_swapp · Post by **adam_swapp** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:29 pm

Sounds to me like someone tightened the truss rod without first removing the tension from the neck and subsequently blew the fingerboard off the neck. The truss rod is "useless" because it can longer work as designed; tightening the truss rod serves only to push the fingerboard and the neck proper further apart.

It can't be fixed. Sell it to me.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:32 pm

Bytemonster: Welcome to The Rickenbacker Forum. You might also post this on the "Vibrola" Technical Forum so that others who do repairs will see it sooner/

dale_fortune · Post by **dale_fortune** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:46 pm

Fred Here's what you'll need to do to fix this correctly: 2 ways to approach this repair.
1st pull the truss rod out. Now using caution and care, spread the F.B. and neck stock at the peg head. Use a jewelers file and sand paper to remove as much of the old glue as possible. The new modern polyurathane glues will hold almost anything together. Using this glue, put just enough inbetween the F.B. and the neck so it oozes out when you clamp them back together. Clean the excess with paint thinner on a cloth. Also clean the excess out of the truss rod slot, use a coat hanger with small rag taped to it. This will work unless you want to pull the F.B. and plane the surfaces of the neck and F.B. then re-glue it. You will probably need to refret also.
This can be quite expensive unless you have the experience in this type of repair.

adam_swapp · Post by **adam_swapp** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:58 pm

What he said.

BTW, I was just kidding about the "It can't be fixed" part.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:55 pm

Dale, by polyurethane glues, are you referring to "Gorilla Glue"? I've been using more and more of this stuff for structure (planes badly, but holds like a bandit!)

adam_swapp · Post by **adam_swapp** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:34 pm

The question I would have about the urethane glues is the permanence. It's not that I think it wouldn't work, but rather that it might work too well for some applications. I don't know that the fretboard qualifies as "removable" part, but I would think that using urethane glue might preclude ever taking that fretboard off by conventional, non-destructive methods (e.g. heat).

Of course, I would defer to Dale on this, as he undoubtedly knows far more than I about this kind of stuff.

bytemonster · Post by **bytemonster** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:10 pm

Adam, very funny. I'll pass that advice on to my client. Don't hold your breath, but he does have another one just like it in better condition that he IS selling. How much ya wanit?

Dale, the neck has a fore bow to begin with, so I'm afraid that just gluing down the fretboard at the headstock won't fix the bow. Second, I'd be more prone to agree with Adam about the glue. I have LMI Luthiers White glue, which I've used before to glue acoustic top repairs to the body, and it works great. It's also been recommended by a local repairman who does great work. I also have granulated hide glue which I've never used before. I use Gorilla Glue If I KNOW something's not going to come apart again, so I'd be hesitant to use it on this repair.

So my question is, would it be better to remove/reset the fretboard and glue it back with a slight backbow? If so, should I put the truss rod in before or after the repair?

Thanks

dale_fortune · Post by **dale_fortune** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:29 pm

Fred and Paul Yes The poly glues can be undone with an infra-red heat lamp, they are subject to heat just as the White and Yellow alphetic resin glues are. You can also use the heat lamps and a neck brace to put a back bow in the neck. Hide glues are great for restorations or old school lutherie, they take exact time and care when using cause they set up fast once they've left the pot. I myself use Titebond. For neck and peg head cracks/breaks i use the high tech poly glues.
I personally would not condem using a poly glue on your F.B. But if you pull the truss rod and put a reverse bow in it and check the nut and backing plate, they may need to be revamped. This may help with your problem.

adam_swapp · Post by **adam_swapp** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:47 pm

Just out of curiousity: does the owner know you've never done this before and that you're going to school on his guitar?

Anyway, do you have any pictures to illustrate the problem, as well as something to indicate the amount of bow in the neck (like a straightedge laid along the frets)?

bytemonster · Post by **bytemonster** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:27 pm

First of all - Dale, it's Fren, it's not a typo, my parents made it up. And Adam, yes, he knows. He's also seen the "first time out" work I've done on other guitars that came out great, so he trusts me to do the research and do the repair correctly. That's why I'm here picking y'all's brains! Thanks!

So Dale, I'm thinking about it, and you're probably right that I can glue the fretboard down by the headstock and heat the neck and brace it in a backbow. I've heated and straightened the neck on a classical guitar recently. and it worked fine. I used my wifes iron to heat it up. I was thinking of springing for the heat blanket LMI sells. Any experience with those?

Also, I pulled the truss rod and the threaded end is a little twisted and bent.

There are some pics at http://www.frensterguitars.com/rick/

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:13 am

Buy the blanket. It'll give you more even, controllable heat. You can hook it up to a rheostat for even more control.

Replace the trussrod! Bending it back will in many cases weaken it!

Dale, do you agree?

dale_fortune · Post by **dale_fortune** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:33 am

My appologies Fren. Heat Blankets work great. I use one to bend sides for Ukulele's and Acoustic's
I built my reo-stat control from a light dimmer switch that's available at most hardware stores. Mount it in a metal box with a plug in recp. and power cord, that way you can unplg the blanket.
The nice thing about infrared heat lamps is they penatrate slow and deep. Both methods work fine.
I've never had a problem rebending the truss rods,
the critical area is the threaded end. It must have an up angle to it so the adjustment nut works
without seperateing the F.B.

dale_fortune · Post by **dale_fortune** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:41 am

Also the unthreaded end needs to be ground down to a 30degree angle to the spacer/backing plate.
This gives it a bite so it will allow the upper rod section to assert more pressure on the neck.
Try this 1st. Clamp the F.B. and neck, back bend the truss rod, grind the end, place trus rod back in and adjust, see if this makes a big difference. It has worked for me many times.

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:38 am

If necessary, it doesn't hurt to cut off the rod a bit to rethread and regrind all new surfaces. On truss rods anyway, an inch less doesn't make much difference.