Rickenbacker 4002 - George Cole Interview?

[nixdad]

Hey 4002 Fans -

I'm really enjoying reading all of the historical 4002 content here!

My next video will focus on the original 4002 basses, including the new models which have been built since 2013. This will be a follow up to the 4005 video I released a few months ago.

Two Questions -
1) Was Ric's Chief Engineer George Cole ever interviewed and asked what he had in mind when he designed the 4002?

2) Is anyone aware of a left-handed 4002 ever being built since it was an option between '77-'84? I've found photos of 2 fretless 4002 basses, but have not been able to locate any evidence of a LH model.

Thanks,
Chris

[iiipopes]

Chris, I own a 4002. I got it used in the early 90's. It is a 1981 model. For a couple of decades it was my only bass. I gigged it so much I wore the frets out, so I had it re-fretted by a sympathetic luthier who completely understands Rickenbacker basses and had the crown radius lowered from the old-style 7 1/4 inch radius to 10 inches. The neck on my particular bass has a really chunky profile, so lowering the crown radius made it much more playable and evened out some of the response inconsistencies caused by the old neck radius. Like any instrument: it had some great features; it was ahead of its time with some features; and some things just didn't work out. I will not presume to guess, presuppose, or extrapolate any of George Cole's thought processes, but "reverse thinking" analysis of some of the features might help. Somewhere in a box I have the original Guitar Player issue that had the first advertisement for the 4002, and had always wanted one since I was in high school in the 70's.

First, the pickups. They are the first iteration I can find of end-to-end, or split-coil in-line humbucking bass pickups. If someone knows any others, let me know. DiMarzio was only a couple of years behind with the introduction of the Model J in 1979 (with more wire on them then, but I digress....)

The interleafed bridge pickup to its own XLR jack was a great idea, but underdeveloped due to the technology of the day. Leo Fender a couple years earler had taken a similar idea and pioneered the onboard active bass circuits on the Music Man Sting-Ray. So there was never enough output unless you ran the XLR output to a separate preamp before going anywhere else with it. Unfortunately, I have never been able to find a good use of the low-impedance low-level use for this feature on the 4002.

Neck: singular among Rickenbacker instruments for having the ebony fret board, for the "premium" marketing. Then again, by comparison, bubinga was less expensive and that had become the "trademark" fret board wood. 4002s still had "hairpin" truss rods because the newer ones had not been invented yet.

Circuits: Why Rickenbacker developed the convoluted pickup circuits I will never know. Putting a high-pass capacitor on both pickups, even with the resistor bridging the capacitor for a little less tonal rolloff, caused phasing and comb filtering issues. I finally bypassed the high-pass capacitor on the neck pickup to get more fundamental, keeping the parts if they ever needed to be retrofitted for sale. And because the bridge pickup had less impedance due to having less windings in order to make way for the interleafed Low-Z windings, that all but cured the phasing issues.

Finally, why the placement of the pickups? Simple. This was evidently to be Rickenbacker's direct competition to the Fender Jazz Bass, taken up a couple of notches with the different and additional features, finishing with the checkerboard binding, etc. Take a 4002 and a 60's pickup placement Fender Jazz Bass and line them up. The pickups will center on each other with the same spacing between them on each bass. Then with the pickups aligned, hold the basses there, and you will see that respectively the nut and the bridge saddles of the 4002 are both three-eighths of an inch inboard compared to the Jazz Bass. That makes up the difference in the differing scales: 33 1/4 inches for the 4002; 34 inches for the Fender.

Epilogue: and then, on the old RIC forum, Mr. JH posted, "4002? We didn't make many of those. They are as rare as hen's teeth." The effect of that statement was to immediately add a zero to the end of the dollar figure of value. Worse, the best strings for that bass were always GHS Progressives in custom gauges 45-60-80-106, which I purchased as singles from when Progressives first came out right after I got the bass, until they were discontinued during COVID. I have two sets NOS left. Hope all this helps.

Postscript: go to this threadhttps://www.rickresource.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... ne#p882353 to hear my 4002, my Rickenbacker 12-string overdub drone rhythm track, and my low background vocals on the last verse. My mods to my 360-12 are for another discussion for another day.

[nixdad]

Chris, I own a 4002. I got it used in the early 90's. It is a 1981 model. For a couple of decades it was my only bass. I gigged it so much I wore the frets out, so I had it re-fretted by a sympathetic luthier who completely understands Rickenbacker basses and had the crown radius lowered from the old-style 7 1/4 inch radius to 10 inches. The neck on my particular bass has a really chunky profile, so lowering the crown radius made it much more playable and evened out some of the response inconsistencies caused by the old neck radius. Like any instrument: it had some great features; it was ahead of its time with some features; and some things just didn't work out. I will not presume to guess, presuppose, or extrapolate any of George Cole's thought processes, but "reverse thinking" analysis of some of the features might help. Somewhere in a box I have the original Guitar Player issue that had the first advertisement for the 4002, and had always wanted one since I was in high school in the 70's.

First, the pickups. They are the first iteration I can find of end-to-end, or split-coil in-line humbucking bass pickups. If someone knows any others, let me know. DiMarzio was only a couple of years behind with the introduction of the Model J in 1979 (with more wire on them then, but I digress....)

The interleafed bridge pickup to its own XLR jack was a great idea, but underdeveloped due to the technology of the day. Leo Fender a couple years earler had taken a similar idea and pioneered the onboard active bass circuits on the Music Man Sting-Ray. So there was never enough output unless you ran the XLR output to a separate preamp before going anywhere else with it. Unfortunately, I have never been able to find a good use of the low-impedance low-level use for this feature on the 4002.

Neck: singular among Rickenbacker instruments for having the ebony fret board, for the "premium" marketing. Then again, by comparison, bubinga was less expensive and that had become the "trademark" fret board wood. 4002s still had "hairpin" truss rods because the newer ones had not been invented yet.

Circuits: Why Rickenbacker developed the convoluted pickup circuits I will never know. Putting a high-pass capacitor on both pickups, even with the resistor bridging the capacitor for a little less tonal rolloff, caused phasing and comb filtering issues. I finally bypassed the high-pass capacitor on the neck pickup to get more fundamental, keeping the parts if they ever needed to be retrofitted for sale. And because the bridge pickup had less impedance due to having less windings in order to make way for the interleafed Low-Z windings, that all but cured the phasing issues.

Finally, why the placement of the pickups? Simple. This was evidently to be Rickenbacker's direct competition to the Fender Jazz Bass, taken up a couple of notches with the different and additional features, finishing with the checkerboard binding, etc. Take a 4002 and a 60's pickup placement Fender Jazz Bass and line them up. The pickups will center on each other with the same spacing between them on each bass. Then with the pickups aligned, hold the basses there, and you will see that respectively the nut and the bridge saddles of the 4002 are both three-eighths of an inch inboard compared to the Jazz Bass. That makes up the difference in the differing scales: 33 1/4 inches for the 4002; 34 inches for the Fender.

Epilogue: and then, on the old RIC forum, Mr. JH posted, "4002? We didn't make many of those. They are as rare as hen's teeth." The effect of that statement was to immediately add a zero to the end of the dollar figure of value. Worse, the best strings for that bass were always GHS Progressives in custom gauges 45-60-80-106, which I purchased as singles from when Progressives first came out right after I got the bass, until they were discontinued during COVID. I have two sets NOS left. Hope all this helps.

Postscript: go to this threadhttps://www.rickresource.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... ne#p882353 to hear my 4002, my Rickenbacker 12-string overdub drone rhythm track, and my low background vocals on the last verse. My mods to my 360-12 are for another discussion for another day.

Hi Scott -
Thanks so much for your reply. I've read quote a few of your 4002 posts here, so I'm really appreciative you've provided so much valuable info here.
BTW, since you replied here, you don't need to duplicate efforts based upon my PM in Talkbass.

A few notes:
- I appreciate your comment about the 4002 Ad! I have not seen this yet, so now I'm on a quest as I'd love to include this in the video (I do have an early 80's Rickenbacker catalog and have gathered other catalog photos including the (I believe) 1984 catalog cover featuring the 4002.)
- Interesting that your bass has a chunky neck. Other owners have described theirs having slim necks (believe me, I'm fully aware Ric necks can be all over the map feel-wise.)
- Thanks for all of your "owner/player's" insight.
- The pickup info is interesting, and thanks for confirming that the XLR appears to have only been wired to the bridge pickup (what an odd design choice!) The video will not be a technical deep dive, but will include facts which should be of interest.
- Thanks for confirming the 60's Jazz Bass spacing for the pickups.

Questions:
- The "Hairpin" truss rod is the dual truss rods, correct?

Chris

[iiipopes]

Chris,
Yes, the "hairpins" are the older dual truss rods, requiring the complicated procedure to set them. They were updated in the mid-1980's, but still dual. Finally, they threw in the towel and went to single truss rods a few years ago.

The ad I have is a small square in the back of the particular Guitar Player magazine under the "new products" section. It's not the full-page advertisement you see in later editions of the magazine. MSRP: $1600.

I dug up some old pictures. I don't know where I got them. Someone on the forum was rebuilding his bass and took these pictures of the insides of a 4002 pickup. Attached.

And finally, the original wiring diagram.

Rick 4002 Schematic.gif (10.64 KiB) Viewed 860 times

[nixdad]

Chris,
Yes, the "hairpins" are the older dual truss rods, requiring the complicated procedure to set them. They were updated in the mid-1980's, but still dual. Finally, they threw in the towel and went to single truss rods a few years ago.

The ad I have is a small square in the back of the particular Guitar Player magazine under the "new products" section. It's not the full-page advertisement you see in later editions of the magazine. MSRP: $1600.

I dug up some old pictures. I don't know where I got them. Someone on the forum was rebuilding his bass and took these pictures of the insides of a 4002 pickup. Attached.
ric4resized.jpg
ric3resized.jpg
ric2resized.jpg

And finally, the original wiring diagram.
Rick 4002 Schematic.gif

Hey Scott -
Thanks for clarifying the "hairpins" term, as well as including the pickup photos and schematic. My plan is to include features information about the bass and plenty of facts, however, since I don't have near the amount of technical knowledge that someone like you has, I'm going to avoid getting too deep into the technical weeds.

BTW, have you seen the 4005 video from a few months back? That will give you a good idea of the feel and flow I have in mind, even though the content will be different.

I appreciate the information about the 4002 ad. I spent hours last night searching for it online, so the fact that this was much smaller than normal (maybe a 1/4 page?) is very interesting. The $1,600 MSRP indicates it's likely from 1981. Can you tell me who is on the cover if you recall? Or, and only IF the magazine is handy, can you send me a photo? Your time is valuable, so I don't want you digging through boxes to try to find it.

Thanks again,
Chris

[iiipopes]

If I still have that issue of GP, it is buried in a box in storage. If I ever run across it, I'll scan and post it.

[nixdad]

If I still have that issue of GP, it is buried in a box in storage. If I ever run across it, I'll scan and post it.

Don't worry about it, Scott. If I find it, great, if not, so be it.

Thanks for your reply,
Chris

[nixdad]

If I still have that issue of GP, it is buried in a box in storage. If I ever run across it, I'll scan and post it.

Hey Scott - do have a photo of you with your 4002? I'd love to include it in the video.

Chris

[nixdad]

If I still have that issue of GP, it is buried in a box in storage. If I ever run across it, I'll scan and post it.

Hey Scott -
BTW, I remembered I had a 1981 issue of Guitar Player buried in a back bedroom ('81 aligns with the $1,600 MSRP.) Unfortunately, it wasn't the issue that mentioned the 4002, but I was able to see the back section you referred to. I saw that section is all text and no photos, so with that, I'm not as obsessed with trying to find the posting.

Funny, since that section focused on New Products, it's interesting that Rickenbacker chose to submit the blurb since the bass had been released 4 years prior.

Chris

[iiipopes]

Yeah, GP was always behind on these items. Just look at ads for then-new DiMarzio pickups. The company ads were always in the main body of the magazine, while a blurb about them in the "new products" section was always months behind.

[nixdad]

Yeah, GP was always behind on these items. Just look at ads for then-new DiMarzio pickups. The company ads were always in the main body of the magazine, while a blurb about them in the "new products" section was always months behind.

HA! Too funny.

BTW, I found a photo of you with your 4002 buried within another thread yesterday, so I'll use that photo within the video. Nice Jag!

Also - I believe I read you are (or were) in a Beatles band as well. Are there any videos available?

Chris

[iiipopes]

Not in a Beatles band. Occasionally my 10-piece party band plays a Beatles song or two. Thanks for using the picture. I waited 45 years to get a picture that brought the second verse of Pink Floyd's "Welcome to the Machine" to life. Farmers Gastropub is a real English-style pub owned by a guy from Manchester. Great food, many beers, foreign and domestic, on tap.

[nixdad]

Not in a Beatles band. Occasionally my 10-piece party band plays a Beatles song or two. Thanks for using the picture. I waited 45 years to get a picture that brought the second verse of Pink Floyd's "Welcome to the Machine" to life. Farmers Gastropub is a real English-style pub owned by a guy from Manchester. Great food, many beers, foreign and domestic, on tap.

Gotcha - I must of misread one of your posts.
10-piece band? WOW! And I thought it was tough to find venues that can accommodate my 6-member Beatles band!

Great photo! Farmers sounds like a great place. Does your band perform there?

[iiipopes]

Yes. I actually use a different bass with EMG actives then DI to the board to keep the bass clean, lowest possible noise and cross-talk, and slotted properly in the mix. No bass amp on stage. No, Farmers Gastropub is not a place that has live music. But you can always catch a Premier League match on the big screen on Saturdays. The pub is on Facebook.

[nixdad]

Yes. I actually use a different bass with EMG actives then DI to the board to keep the bass clean, lowest possible noise and cross-talk, and slotted properly in the mix. No bass amp on stage. No, Farmers Gastropub is not a place that has live music. But you can always catch a Premier League match on the big screen on Saturdays. The pub is on Facebook.

Nice!