6-saddle vs 12-saddle sound

[touch33]

Good Evening, All –

Today's Stupid Newb Question: is there a noticeable sonic difference (not intonation) between using a 6-saddle bridge or a 12-saddle Rick-brand bridge on my NGTM 360/12? I know on my Fender Esquire build there is a pretty big difference between the standard 3-saddle Tele-style bridge vs the newer 6-saddle style – apparently the two strings sharing a single saddle makes them interact/resonate differently, and it's a difference I can easily hear (mostly when playing chords).

What say you, More Knowledgeable Ricksters?

[kennyhowes]

Without a taste test, I'd say that the differences in tone are minimal. The bigger thing, which also affects intonation, is the kind of string used.

[iiipopes]

In the old RIC forum, even Mr. JH said that the six-saddle bridge has better tone and sustain than the 12-saddle bridge due to the greater mass of each saddle, including having only one hole through the saddle for each pair of strings. You can purchase strings that will intonate on the 6-saddle bridge, especially making sure to use a set that has a wound G-3rd unison string so the string stretch of the cores, and therefore the saddle offset, will intonate together.

Admittedly, there is one exception: the low E string, where unison and octave strings are both wound. They have different core diameters and therefore different offset requirements. I solved this by purchasing a spare saddle from the RiC boutique and filing it offset so both strings of the low E pair will intonate properly. Pic attached.

[touch33]

Excellent feedback – thx! This '19 360/12 is my first Rick guitar (I have a'76 3000 bass) and first 12-string so I appreciate the knowledge of others here on the board.

My strings of choice are the TI "Infeld-12" flatwounds (I use the Jazz Flats on my '66 Martin GT-75 6-string). While I like the idea of fine-tuned intonation that the 12-saddle can provide, the idea of filing away on the low-E saddle to create offset sounds like a great move as well. I ordered a Rick 12-saddle last night (so of course not waiting for "better ideas from others" may mean I've got a $150 addition for the Parts Box) but I'm not adverse to experimentation, either. My usage is mostly rhythm playing and I rarely find myself above the 9th fret, so super-accurate intonation isn't the highest priority for this guitar. I think – maybe...

[jdogric12]

The best and recommended string set for a Rick 12 has a .020w for the G fundamental and the A octave, so it is recommended to put the low E and low A saddles back really far on a 12-saddle. McGuinn himself had a photo showing this on his website for many years.

[kennyhowes]

My strings of choice are the TI "Infeld-12" flatwounds.

Great choice, and will help out a lot with any intonation issues.

[collin]

From a "technical" perspective, I can understand why some people appreciate the 12-saddle bridge and THINK they're making an improvement with that.

But consider the fact that every classic Rickenbacker 12-string song you know and love was recorded on a 6-saddle bridge, from Beatles, Byrds and Who to Tom Petty, REM, The Smiths and everyone in-between. If it worked for all of these legends, it's certainly good enough for all of us.

There is something about the slightly compromised intonation of a 6-saddle bridge on these guitars that gives it a distinctive sound. Crazy, but it's hard to argue with the results.

[bluewhale]

...There is something about the slightly compromised intonation of a 6-saddle bridge on these guitars that gives it a distinctive sound...

People make a similar remark about the traditional Telecaster bridge - six strings but only three barrels. I think I believe it.

[collin]

...There is something about the slightly compromised intonation of a 6-saddle bridge on these guitars that gives it a distinctive sound...

People make a similar remark about the traditional Telecaster bridge - six strings but only three barrels. I think I believe it.

It's hard to argue with the results.

I have an original blackguard '54 Tele and I can't imagine wanting more out of a Telecaster than that. No matter how scientifically "perfect" a six-saddle bridge would make it.

[Blomp]

It's hard to argue with the results.

I have an original blackguard '54 Tele and I can't imagine wanting more out of a Telecaster than that. No matter how scientifically "perfect" a six-saddle bridge would make it.

Truthfully there is no such thing as scientifically "perfect" intonation, because the exact intervals are mathematically related to the tonic/root which is constantly changing in most music anyway, so it's a moving target. a fretted instrument like a guitar, or an instrument where each note is individually tuned like a piano, cannot compensate for this and as such the intonation is always compromised.

So having a perfect octave at the 12th fret on every string is really no more 'perfect' and no less 'imperfect' than a well adjusted 3 saddle tele or an archtop with a floating bridge with a single uncompensated saddle. It's simply a different compromise. I really like the results I get from an uncompensated archtop type bridge like what I have on my Gretsch Duo Jet (a tru-arc uncompensated rocking bar on top of a movable ebony base), if I can get it in just the right spot.

Having said that - my 330/12 came to me with a 12 saddle bridge. I don't see any reason to change it. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything by having a 12 saddle bridge. I don't think I'm gaining anything either. It's just there, and I'm happy with it the way it is.

[Goingblankagain]

The 6-saddle is working great on my 360/12. I say if your Ric comes with a 12-saddle, stay with that. If you are looking at an older Ric 12-string with the 6 saddle, no need to upgrade unless there is something otherwise wrong with your bridge and you need to order a new one.

[touch33]

Just want to thank everyone who replied — great info, thx for sharing!

[steverok]

Years ago, when I got my first Ric 12-string, I upgraded from the 6-saddle bridge to the 12-saddle bridge. Having recorded it before the switch, I immediately noticed it didn't sound quite as good. I wasn't listening for a loss in tone, I didn't expect a loss in tone, yet, to my ear, I perceived a loss in tone. I switched it back and have kept it that way since.

[akpasta]

I just swapped the 6-saddle bridge on my 1995 360/12v64 for a new rickenbacker 12-saddle bridge. There is a VERY slight reduction in sustain from the smaller aluminum saddles, but it's extremely slight.

By comparison, I have an early 1980s 360/12 with a custom "Stars Guitars" 12 saddle bridge (iykyk) that seems to be made of steel with very deep string slots, and it has almost no sustain at all compared to the Rickenbacker aluminum saddles. If you want a flat, chimey Mcguinn-esque sound, that's the guitar for you haha. I have semi-flats on it for that reason, just to liven it up a bit.