Reissue 480?

[admin]

Paul: Thanks for your comments and your analysis.

The balance of probabilities for me is that it is indeed a copy of the Rickenbacker Model 480. I have never known a model 480 to have a set-neck which, is only one of the problems that point to a fake with regard to Chin's instrument.

Nonetheless, it would be of interest to me to take the time to have a look under the hood and at the jackplate as well and learn as much as possible about the instrument. Agreed, there is no good reason, in my view, to put the plate on it either.


Very nice quote from Sherlock Holmes. I am reminded that he also warns us

"To let the brain work without sufficient material is like racing an engine. It racks itself to pieces."

While it may tell us what we already suspect, perhaps Chin will do us the favour of adding a few more photos.

[jingle_jangle]

Of course--Shelock is a great source for quotes and my engine races, even at tickover.

[tony_carey]

Would a Ric set necks heel protrude so far? If it is a fake, the chap has got the shape off to a tee. Even the headstock looks completely accurate, the original of which has always looked slightly 'not quite right' to me.

[admin]

I agree with you Tony, the shape looks very well done, at least using the "eye-ball method." I am not sure that the heel is out too far, but a very good question.

[doctorwho]

It woould also be illuminating to see whether the potentiometers are CTS (137). I've seen some foreign-made guitars with European or Asian pots that do not have an EIA code on them.

[jingle_jangle]

The Orient is very good at copying. Charlie Chan was their version of Sherlock Holmes...

[admin]

Good point Gary. Perhaps Chin will do us this favour.

[meranti]

Dear All,

I managed to examine the guitar closer and am now convinced that it is a fake. The reason, I had a good look at the truss rod cover and found that the name “Rickenbacker” was cut out of some sticker material and stuck on to the plastic!!! I am sorry about this but I really had no idea this was a fake until about 30 minutes ago. It all started with me trying to locate a model number for this guitar and ending up discovering it to be a fake!

I have come across many fakes but this one sure fooled me. Anyway I enclose some more pictures of this fake.

Below is a pic of the guitar body.



Next is a picture of the controls area showing the knobs, toggle, the pickups, bridge and partially the tailpiece. Note the elevated pickguard.



A close-up of the bridge, tailpiece and bridge pickup.



This is an interesting part of the guitar which is the back of the peghead. You can see the words inscribed into the back and it reads like "R-16900068 USA" Note the Kluson Deluxe tuners.



Finally a pic of the output plate. I can hardly make out the top alphabets or digits but the numbers below read "3278".


Some further information I can provide are:

I am posting this from the Far East (Indonesia to be exact). I live and work here and I know the mere mention of Indonesia scares a lot of people (famous for internet fraud where it is common to see dealers stating they will not ship to Indonesia!). I understand this problem but I am a serious guitar lover here.

This has unfortunately turned out to be a fake and I have come across many. However, this one is sure to get me going to find out more information of its background.

The seller claimed that he got this refinished at a small guitar maker that I know which makes cheap fakes and real cheap electrics (selling for less than USD50 each). I have visited this factory (actually a house) once and they have catalogues of brand name guitars and you pick the model you want and they make it for you in 2 to 3 weeks. The quality of their guitars is poor and hence is reflected in the finishing on this one.

The seller claimed that the guitar has been re-fretted and according to the seller was done by a local luthier who also makes copies for sale. I have also been to see this luthier before and his quality is better than the above. However, the hardware used is generally from Korea.

In this case the parts that I see on this guitar include Klusons and what appears to be original Ric parts. What I really do not understand is why would anyone go to all this trouble to create a brass plate and punch numbers behind the peghead? It would be totally un-necessary.

I will be trying to visit these two makers over the weekend to find out more on what they know about this guitar.

Thank you everyone for your comments. If you want to know more I will definitely post my findings as I get the info.


Regards,

Chin Hon

[meranti]

Sorry missed out the output plate. Here it is:

[admin]

Thanks Chin. There is nothing like detailed closeup photos to tell the tale. I appreciate your efforts, which confirmed the first impression that this instrument was a copy.

[jingle_jangle]

Dodgy Indonesia.

Chin, let me get this straight:

You got this guitar from a guy who had it refinished at a house-factory that you had visited before, where you know that they make fakes, and yet you believed this to be real?

It took you several days to notice that the peghead logo was a vinyl sticker?

The guy claimed the guitar was refretted by yet another guy who also makes fakes, and you were not suspicious?

I don't agree with what you say about the "trouble" to replicate numbers and the brass plate. A set of number stamps can be purchased in Indonesia for less that a quarter, $US. I've had brass machine parts made in a house-foundry (honey, keep those kids away from that pot of molten brass on the stove, willya?) for $3.00 in 4 hours, and those were parts the size of your fist. A plate would be much cheaper still. To make a plate and stamp some numbers would be a breeze.

I hesitate to say this, but what the hell:

Has it occurred to anybody here that this could be a trial balloon for a series of Rickenbacker fakes? Rare older model, reasonably good copy with bad paint and most smaller details wrong. We've just critiqued it. Now they go back and make it better. Will they ever get it good enough to pass off? Stay tuned...

Sorry for the paranoia. Time for my Xanax.

[admin]

Paul: In his introduction Chin wrote

"Can anyone tell me whether this is a reissue as I am unable to find any information about this guitar anywhere. if yes, what year was this guitar made?"

It was my impression that he was unsure of this instrument from the beginning and was asking for assistance. I am happy that we were able to provide him with the critical view that lead to his conclusion that this insrument was a fake. It seems to me that this trial balloon was floated quite some time ago.

Thanks for this information Chin. It really helps to let us know what sort of illegal things are going on around the world in the name of Rickenbacker. Your photos were very informative. To be forewarned is to be forearmed.

[jeff_ulmer]

As for the TRC, it could well be original. The older TRCs had the logo painted on the back of clear plexiglass, and were then painted again with white. This could appear to be vinyl.

However, aside from the vintage parts, which could be genuine, the numbers on the headstock don't make sense, the guard is obviously wrong. I'd have to dig out my 480 to compare other details.

[BobKat]

My belief is that this is a heavily reworked actual 480. The fingerboard wood and coloring, the R tail, the head shape, it just screams "real".

[rick12dr]

I'm with you on this one, Bob...