Dakota "stickiness"

justonwo · Post by **justonwo** » Fri Aug 24, 2001 9:17 am

I just sent Mark Arnquist an email about this problem but I thought I'd ask other Ric owners out there . . . after playing my Ric 650 Dakota for about 20 minutes, my fingertips accumulate a lot of sticky grime that makes playing really difficult (and I've tried a variety of strings). Mark indicated that the natural oil finish is responsible for this problem. Has anyone else out there experienced a similar problem? What remedial measures have you taken?

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 6:49 pm

The finish as it left the factory is entirely synthetic, mainly polyurethane. If it is subsequently rubbed with natural oils, you can get the effect you describe. That's because the natural oil feeds bacteria transferred to the guitar from your hands, growing and gumming the surface up. However, bacteria can't survive on synthetics, so don't feed them. You may wish to wash your hands more often.

But why am I telling you this? You're an environmental chemist.

ted_williams · Post by **ted_williams** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 7:58 am

I can vouch for the "personal chemistry" aspect of this phenomenon. Every time a friend of mine plays one of my guitars, I need to wipe down the neck to remove his sticky residue, even when he washes his hands immediately before playing.

justonwo · Post by **justonwo** » Wed Sep 05, 2001 7:58 am

Mr. Hall,
I appreciate your response. I am, in fact, a chemical engineer, rather than an environmental chemist.

I should point out that I don't have this problem with my Fender strat which I why I posed the question in the first place. If there were a consistent problem from guitar to guitar then I could be reasonably assured that the problem is my own. However, this is not the case.

axel · Post by **axel** » Wed Sep 05, 2001 9:47 am

Mr Hall, is the polyurethane used also on non-650 guitars ?

This process you describe : "the natural oil feeds bacteria transferred to the guitar from your hands, growing and gumming the surface up"
.. it does fit exactly what I've been through with my 360 -subsequently refinished- and what seems to happen to the 620 also, although somewhat a bit slower.

btw, what is 'natural oil finish' ? - if it's polyurethane, it ain't natural, right ?

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Wed Sep 05, 2001 10:50 am

I've shared my limited knowledge about the main cause of this problem on oil-finished guitars (which of course wouldn't be relevant to a polyester Strat).

For the 650 and 4004 Series natural instruments only, we use a polyurethane-based finish. However, it's not practical for an end-user to use this material for routine maintenance and so we've recommended the use of tung oil. However, where bacterial growth is a problem, a purely synthetic oil is a better choice. My favorite source for this is the marine hardware store, where one can usually buy teak oil labelled as synthetic . . . just make sure it really says synthetic as "teak oil" is often just palm oil in actuality.

I just found this link and perhaps one of our customers in Australia might wish to see if this natural product is suitable as well: www.organoil.com.au

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Wed Sep 05, 2001 12:07 pm

John, Would Watco Danish oil work as well for this??

justonwo · Post by **justonwo** » Wed Sep 05, 2001 1:23 pm

Just keep the witty rejoinders flowing.

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed Sep 05, 2001 3:24 pm

There were several sticky points in this topic that were cleaned up by the editor. While this approach is not completely natural, I believe it does, in its own synthetic way, preserve the main content of the topic without going against the grain.

sir_andrew_of_left_coast · Wed Sep 05, 2001 4:59 pm

Nice work, Clouseau...

It was starting to get a bit tacky... I was beginning to fret.

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:11 pm

Ah well, I see the source of my confusion. As posted on Voxtalks:

"Chemical engineering at UC Berkeley. I'm an environmental consultant.

08-29-2001 18:58:16 HOST/IP: 206.99.249.52"

landon · Post by **landon** » Wed Sep 05, 2001 7:00 pm

I have a 650D and I have not had a "sticky grime" problem with mine. I have played my Dakota for almost a year now, fairly heavily with recording and practicing, and with sweaty, and once with beer coated hands from a spilled beer, and I have had no problems with grime or bacterial build up. Also, not that I would, but If I ever wanted too, is it possible to ever put a clear coat finish on a guitar that is already finished in Tung Oil?

justonwo · Post by **justonwo** » Thu Sep 06, 2001 5:59 am

Hmmm, perhaps I will try out the synthetic teak oil. John, do you recommend using a Scotch Brite pad prior to application of the oil?

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Thu Sep 06, 2001 6:30 am

As someone else so aptly said, it's a "personal chemistry" problem and/or the addition of the natural oils in maintenance.

Personally, on my 650, I clean the fingerboard with Simple Green, just to get rid of the dark color that eventually builds. Sometimes you can still see a trace of the trademark green used in the cleaner but it otherwise sure brightens things up and no doubt kills off any mildew bacteria that might otherwise form. This same formula but as a clear cleaner would be killer . . . some enterprising young chemist should look into it, hint, hint. Tau Beta Pi Special Formula Guitar Cleaner, something like that. Or for extra cleaning, the Alpha Epsilon Pi Mega Formula.

Tung oil shouldn't create an problem with refinishing with oil-based clear in the future. I just found this page which offers some future background in oil finishes, especially varnish:

All about oil-based varnish

justonwo · Post by **justonwo** » Thu Sep 06, 2001 7:44 am

Or perhaps Journal of the American Chemical Society-O-Solve. Gotta love the web.