A Pub On Every Corner

[admin]

I have recently talked to a man who lived in Liverpool during World War II and he considered that the phrase "A Pub On Every Corner" was certainly appropriate during this time. I am wondering why there were so many of these pubs, many in private homes instead of more commercial ventures. Was this largely due to the need for employment.

[bmi_guy]

Peter,
I asked my father-in-law about this as he was a WWII veteran. He said there was a lot of "socialization" going on before D-Day. (Basically drink'n & chicks) and with so many American GIs in country who had money to spend, the locals were not about to "let them down"!

I guess 'employment" is as good an answer as any.

[admin]

Michael: thanks for your comments. I appreciate your research. The Liverpool residents, as others in the UK, certainly demonstrated their resourcefulness during tough times. Why leave a stone unturned when it may take your mind off of tough times and turn a profit at the same time.

I am wondering too, if the Irish descendents didn't have a significant role to play in the development of these establishments. Were the pubs in the Irish sections of the Port City any different than in other areas? I would love to hear your father-in-law's comments on this subject.

[bmi_guy]

Peter,
I don't mean to be disrespectful to you at all, but you'd have to know my father-in-law. He's not much on Social Studies or culture. I think his basic interest at that time was to get drunk and... well you know... before they went to the mainland to take on Mr. Hitler.

Ok - point blank - he's pretty much a redneck - always has been and always will be!!

[bluespckr]

I was married to a Liverpudlian girl for four years and spent most of that same time being the only "Yank" in an all British group when I was stationed in Germany. Certainly, my former wife's parents lived through the war, but from what I saw while in the Air Force in Germany, the British just love their pints. It was a grand tradition back then, and probably still is to some degree today. About the Irish connection, well, one night I asked if there was anybody in the audience (at a British military base in Berlin) from Liverpool. Somebody yelled back, "You mean the capital of Ireland?" So you might have something there, and a pub on every corner sounds about right. Even my former wife used to say it was kind of an expected thing for the hubby to go down to the corner pub after supper for a pint or two.

[stubby]

I play in a lot of Irish type bars (here in Canada we are thankfully free of distinguishing exactly what that means) and I have heard, on many occasions-from ex-pat Liverpudlains-that same comment for 20 years. Liverpool was a hotbed of Irish music and it has had me thinking on many occasions of the influence of traditional Irish music on the Beatles. After all, they were coming up at a time when the folk revival would have been prevalent in their city. Not that I can picture the Beatles playing a la the Dubliners or the Clancy Bros. but I wonder how this influenced them. Maggie Mae hints at some of this I think. And I can't help but chuckle to think of Lennon or Harrison walking along some street somewhere whistling Whiskey in the Jar or Johnny I Hardly Knew Ya!

[admin]

Bill; Thank you for your excellent comments. I certainly agree that the Irish influence had an impact on the Beatles' lifestyle and as a consequence on their music.

Historically, the rapid influx of Irish people to Liverpool at the time of the potato famine brought about many changes to the Port City. Recreational drinking and rough and tumble play, while not unique to the Irish, did increase with hundreds of thousands moving from Ireland and stopping permanently in Liverpool.

The whole Teddy Boy culture certainly was turned up a notch in the late 50s and early 60s with a dense population downtown with many pubs and neighbourhood gangs carving out their own territories. The vibrant fast moving Irish music could never have gone unnoticed by The Beatles.

Maggie Mae is a hint and I would argue the tip of the iceberg. Borrowing from that same album, One After 909 is another song that I consider has the rough edge and could have been motivated by drinking Irish songs.

This is a fascinating topic and one worthy of much more discussion in my view.

[stubby]

And yet I've never come across any references to this. Also, most Liverpudlians I've met of that vintage could certainly sing you all the words to Molly Malone or other equally well known Irish tunes. Moreover, the influx of the Irish helped shape that city's heritage and would dramatically have affected Union/working class culture et al in that City in a fundamental way. Growing up in the city, especially in the post-war period, the cultural music influence was probably pervasive in the homes of the Beatle members (or, if not, in the homes of friends or neighbours). The skiffle sound to me has always had a distinctive Irish folk edge to it too. Anybody aware of any writing or exploration of this topic?

[admin]

Stubby: Lonnie Donegan, sometimes spoken of as the "Scottish Irishman" ushered in the skiffle sound to which you refer. That his influence was significant on Liverpool music and the Beatles is certainly a matter of record. There have been accounts of this written (see P. Willis-Pitts - Liverpool The 5th Beatle, 2000). Also, Liverpool wasn't known as the "Capital of Ireland" for nothing.

This is a fascinating topic and one can certainly hear the impact of Lonnie Donegan on the Beatles' music. Lennon's early beginnings in a skiffle group, are but one example of a tie to Donegan.

[royclough]

Liverpool was not totally unique in the pub on every corner scenario, most cities in North especially wwere the same though I concede to never knowing about people running pubs from their own house, most working men in UK in 50/s 60/s found solace from their burdens in the pub.

[winston]

Peter it was not much different in the South of England. My grandfather and grandmother had a large home in Southampton. They used to billet RAF Spitfire pilots there. Sadly they lost a number of their young tenants during the Battle of Britain.

We also had pubs on every corner. That was all part and parcel of the lifestyle. Nothing really unsual. Remember they did not have television back then and the cinema was not open 7 days a week like it is now.

I have a lot of experience with Irish influences. My father married an Irish woman (my mother God rest her soul in heaven) who came to England looking for a better life shortly after the war.

As a result one whole side of my family is Irish. In the days after the war it became evident that they loved music. They played anything that they could get their hands on including spoons. Very musical, happy people in general. Yes can be a bit rough around the edges but I would rather have an Irishman back me in a fight than just about any other nationality. If we lost we would go down fighting for sure.

Moving forward a few years I was fortunate enough to tour with Rory Gallagher one of Southern Irelands legendary musicians and we had much in common. Rory wanted me to join his band and finish the North American tour with him. His brother Donal who was his manager tried to convince me after a performance in Calgary to make that commitment. One of my few regrets as a musician is that I was not able to work that into my schedule.

Ireland has produced some of the best musicians in the world. Along with Rory there are people like Gary Moore who in my mind rivals Clapton and of course incomparable but moody Van Morrison. I could list tons of Irish musicians that are top notch but for the sake of brevity I will leave you with this thought. I firmly believe that the Mersey sound was a fusion of all of the influences that were at play at the time. There was nothing like it before and nothing has rivaled it since IMHO.

[wayang]

I heartily agree...but every time I see Michael Flatley or Riverdance on a stage, I keep praying for the Pogues to come running in from the wings and put the boot to 'em...

Some o' me ancestors were from Cork...that undoubtedly explains it...