Change of sound after removing pick up cover

edski · Post by **edski** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:39 pm

Dean...what Tony says!

No problem to repeat discussion, because something new always gets said. Welcome!

ilan · Post by **ilan** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:05 am

"1)What percentage of bassists leave the pickup cover on, like me,"

A poll in the DudePit Rickenbacker Forum says about 50%.

"2)Is there a good thread somewhere in the archives of the hows/whys of pickup removal"

For the "how" part of your question, I'd start here.

johnashfield · Post by **johnashfield** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:43 am

Only 50% remove the shoes?

I've only seen one band where the bass player left the cover / horseshoes on. He had a v63 so I guess he just left it that way. Every 4003 I've ever seen live, the pup cover is gone.

rickaddict · Post by **rickaddict** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:09 am

Hey guys!

Jim/Sergio- Sorry it took so long for me to get back. I do still have both sets of horseshoes. I keep them in a safe place and will re-install them if I ever sell these basses, so...they are not for sale!

Jim said: "I don't really see the point of paying all the money for a v63 or c64 then ripping out the shoes ... !"

I know you're just messin' with me, but I like the vintage look of the 4001S/RM1999, I like the comfort of the contoured body with no binding, and I like the toaster/horseshoe sound. But I play finger style and I play directly over the bridge pickup. I like the tone I get there and I like the amount of "give" that the string has in that location. I've tried to play with the 'shoes on but its just too frustrating for me.

rickaddict · Post by **rickaddict** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:25 am

Chuck-
I don't have a 4001CS, but from what I understand they have a hotter horseshoe pickup than the C64 (more similar to a V63). That combined with the different wood on the fretboard, different strings and different picking location would definitely be some relevant variables when comparing your C64 with your 4001CS.

thx1955 · Post by **thx1955** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:55 am

Hi guys ...
John ... My 4003 has her Pickup covers on, and always had, my previous 4001 had her cover on from 73-96. I've never had the urge it remove the shoes. If you come see us live you'll always see the covers/shoes

Jeff ... I play about 75% of our set list with fingers, and my finger style is very similar to Deans, the pickup cover on my 4003, and the Horseshoe on my v63 are the reference points for my pinky as I play finger style. With a pick the heel of my hand rests on the cover/shoe and that's the pivot point as I play.
I rarely if ever play behind the tail pickup toward the bridge ... just doesn't work for me.

I understand the frustration, I've experienced similar trying to get comfortable with flats ....

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:19 am

Just MHO, but I think that not all of of the people here in the forums reflect the average players attitudes unless tastes have changed in the past few years as there are a lot of collectors here. A lot of people collect these because they are pretty.
Playing Rics and seeing many other Ric bass players play over the years I would say that about 99% I saw had taken off the covers, but each to his own, I don't think 4003's sound any different without the cover. I had two V63's and took the shoes off both, they both sounded thinner and were noisier. They definitely sounded better with the covers on to me. I also think a Ric bass looks better without the cover, although the covers do have a cool retro look to them.

dean712 · Post by **dean712** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:30 pm

Thanks for the links and info, Ilan and all. That's exactly what I was looking for. There are only two other bassists in the local area here that play RICs that I know of, and one was telling me that when he removed the pickup cover, it was more of an involved process than he had thought it was going to be. The schematic you linked me to is very helpful in understanding the construction of the pickup. I'm still going to leave mine on probably, but this was just something I had been wondering about for the longest time. Thanks again!!

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:47 pm

Just MHO, but I think that not all of of the people here in the forums reflect the average players attitudes...

I agree. Forums are great, but most guitarists and bassists I know manage to go through life without even being aware of online forums. Except, of course, for the ones I've met as a result of being on forums.

I think some of us (here and elsewhere) lose sight of that sometimes.

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:51 pm

Back to the original question, I've never owned a v63 or c64, but removing the top of the shoes just about has to change the sound a little. I've compared other pickups with and without a metal baseplate and you can always tell a difference. What you're doing here is something like removing an extension of a metal baseplate.

OTOH I've never noticed a difference in removing a 4003 cover. That's chrome plated plastic and it's not really part of the pickup structure.

rickaddict · Post by **rickaddict** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:51 pm

Another thing to keep in mind here is the pickup height before and after horseshoe removal. I've noticed a big difference just backing the pickup 1 mm off the strings. The experiment isn't controlled unless you're sure to put the pickup back to the same height.

Also, the strings themselves...to really compare the tone, you'd have to leave the same strings on or at least put on a fresh set of a familiar brand of strings after 'shoe removal.

I guess I'm guilty on the second count. When I removed the 'shoes on my c64s, I went from flats to nickel rounds so my experiment was flawed. What I do know for sure though is that my opinion went from: "Wow, this guitar has a really nice neck," to: "Wow, this is one sweet guitar!"(For me the rounds and the access to the strings made the guitar so much nicer.)

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that if the tone changed, it wasn't anything that bothered me. Both my V63 and c64s sound great with or without 'shoes.

jaybic · Post by **jaybic** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:23 am

On the pickup cover - I have a '04 4003 and I've must have removed the cover and then put it back on about 3 times this year. I even went out and purchase the Pickguardian surround for when the cover is off. However, the cover is back on now - mostly for aesthetic reasons - it just looks too darn good not to have it on there. I'll also admit that it took me a lot of pracitcing to get used to the cover being on. I have finally found a playing position (I play finger-style) where I am comfortable while playing.

sloop_john_b · Post by **sloop_john_b** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:40 am

I'm bringing my 4003 in for a setup in a little while (Long needed/deserved), and I've decided that i'm going to have the pickup cover put back on.

When I get the bass in March 2002, I had it removed immediatley, because I was playing fingerstyle and I thought it would get in the way.

Now however, i'm more of a pick player, and that pickup cover will be nice to rest my right hand on.

Also, it'll look like a brand new instrument with the pickup cover back on!

rickfan63 · Post by **rickfan63** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:23 am

I keep both covers on my V63 and 4003. I like to rest my picking hand on the covers of both. But I seem to like the feel of the horseshoe cover better for some reason though. I don't really know why that is.

ilan · Post by **ilan** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:15 am

I like the horseshoe cover better too Randy and I know why... after almost 30 years playing Fenders with the chrome covers (99% pick), I'm used to the feeling of cold metal under the palm of my picking hand more than plastic. Still, a plastic cover is better than no cover at all.