Production Changes And Other Questions

randyz · Post by **randyz** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:05 am

I've never been clear on when certain design changes were implemented on various Rickenbacker guitar models. I wonder if someone here knows the answers to the following questions:

1) When did the headstock get enlarged on 320-series guitars? My '64 325 and '80 320 have the small one I prefer.

2) When did the headstock on the 325V63 or V64 get smaller again? A friend of mine had a hideously large headstock on a late '80's vintage model.

3) When did Rickenbacker cease using Kluson tuners on their guitars? All of my 60's guitars have 'em and so does my '80 320 and my '80 620/12.

4) When did the 330-series guitars go from 21-frets to 24-frets?

5) What did Rickenbacker call a color from the mid-1970's that looked like a dark transparent red (not Fireglo and not Burgundy, like several guitars that Paul Weller played in 1977-1978 and the 330 shown in the 1975 Rick catalog).

6) When did the headstock get enlarged on the 330-series guitars?

I hope that's not too many questions!

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:44 am

I share your headstock questions Randy. I love the small headstock & have just bought a beat up 1980 330 with a 24 fret neck, but small headstock. A '74 360 is on ebay at the moment with what appears to be a large headstock.

bassman · Post by **bassman** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:54 am

I believe that the answer to question #5 is RUBY. But it was only available between 80-84.
Are you sure of your dates?

randyz · Post by **randyz** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:05 pm

Tony,

From what I can tell, the 360's went to a bigger headstock before the 330's. I have a '79 360 with original Grover tuners and it has a slightly enlarged headstock (not bad looking). What I really object to are the grossly oversized headstocks that Rickenbacker started using universally in the later 80's. For this reason, I always buy their vintage reissues. It's funny that you have an '80 330. That's exactly what I'd like for my collection. I currently have (10) Ricks, but not a 330 with Hi-Gains and a small headstock. I'm a Paul Weller fan from way back and have always wanted a guitar like his (either 21-fret or 24-fret, FG, JG, or the mysterious Dark Red from the 70's). I do have a '66 335 FG and a '89 1997VB FG, but I want one with Hi-Gains too. Is that too much to ask?

randyz · Post by **randyz** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:14 pm

Jon,

Something deep in my memory tells me it was called 'Dark Red'. There's a perfect example in full color in the 1975 catalog, but it doesn't say what color it is. Paul Weller (guitar) and Bruce Foxton (bass) in The Jam were playing a matching pair of Rickenbackers in this finish in 1977. Paul had a 21-fret 330 in 1977 and by 1978 had a 24-fret 330 in the same finish. I saw a 340 from the 70's at a guitar show in the late 80's with the same finish. I'm sure it existed and I think it was a mid-70's thing. I just wonder what it was called.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:59 pm

I have three catalogues with the same cover. One is 1975 showing what appears to be a ruby 330 with 21 fret neck & small headstock with hi-gains (the 360 has24 fret/large h/stock). The next catalogue I believe to be 1977 with exactly the same photo in it. The last catalogue I believe to be 1981 & has a ruby 330 with 24 fret neck & small headstock. This last one has a colour chart in it that seems to indicate that the 330's in the '70's catalogues are in fact ruby. That's the way it looks anyway, if you compare the colour chart with the earlier catalogues!
Randy..the 330 with small h/stock that I bought, is the first one that I've seen for sale!

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:12 pm

I suppose it is possible that they are in fact burgundy & that the colour photography is not accurate. This is probably the more likely, as the latest catalogues 330 does seem to be slightly redder than the earlier ones, perhaps indicating that that one is ruby, & the earlier ones are burgundy.

bassman · Post by **bassman** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:10 pm

I think that Tony could be hitting the nail on the head here. I've seen many "lighter" versions of Burgundyglo through out the years that don't come close to my "eggplant" Burgundyglo 73 4001.
And i'm sure that most people would refer to these "lighter" versions as being translucent red.

Mike Parks site shows that Ruby was available between 1980 and 1984. Burgundyglo was originally available between 1963 to 1980.

It must have been Burgundyglo seeing that Fireglo was the only other red finish available at the time you mention, and you would know if it was Fireglo.

adam_swapp · Post by **adam_swapp** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:28 pm

Empirical evidence suggests that Mike Parks' timeline is incorrect. For instance, I have an '85 Ruby 360WB.

bassman · Post by **bassman** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:30 pm

Randy, here's an example of what Tony and I are saying.

This is a 1977 Burgundyglo 4001. It could easily be called translucent red instead.

http://www.basspalace.com/dynamic/displaybass/4StringBass/3761

randyz · Post by **randyz** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:28 pm

Okay guys,

You forced me to trudge down to the catacombs and dig out my archive of old catalogs. My 1975 catalog shows the transparent red 330 (small headstock and 21-frets) in question. I also have the price sheet marked 'Effective 1/1/79'. It lists only Fireglo and Burgundy. I'm thinking that Mr. Hall once said that Burgundy and Fireglo used the same red, and that the difference was all a matter of tinting. I think the dark red I'm looking for is probably either a very light Burgundy or what happens when the Fireglo red is used to completely cover a guitar rather than just shade it. From the number of guitars I've seen this color, it must have been fairly common in the seventies (although I think guitar production was very low at the time). I have a Burgundy 320 from 1980, and the color I'm interested is many shades lighter (and truly red). Now can somebody please answer the other questions?

Thanks!

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:33 pm

Question no 4 & 6. According to my catalogues, I surmise that the 360's had 24 fret necks & large headstocks by 1975.
The 330 changed to 24 fret necks between my two older catalogues...'78-'80 & that they moved to the larger headstock after '81.
This is ONLY based on my catalogues & not on known fact. This means that they could have made 24 fret small headstock 330's for anything from 1 to 5 years? I'd love to know.

jwilli · Post by **jwilli** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:49 am

I would think that by 1970 they made the switch to 24 frets. It probably wasn't a "wholesale" switch but happened over some time.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:58 am

In 1970-71, 360 type 6-strings started appearing with the wide 'Gumby' headstock on an intermittant basis, along with bound heastocks. The period from 1969-71 was pretty neat at Rickenbacker, lots of new ideas making it to the streets, albeit some of them short-lived...

randyz · Post by **randyz** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:11 am

Tony,

I have pictures of people playing 24-fret 330's as far back as 1977-1978. My 1975 catalog (mailed to me by Rickenbacker in late 1979) states in a features table that the 330 has 21-frets. Of course these catalogs aren't always accurate. For instance, this same catalog shows a 320 with toaster-top pick-ups. I was hoping someone knew exactly when these changes became permanent (Mr. Hall are you listening?). Sure do wish I could order a bunch of Ricks using my 1979 price list!

Thanks