Confused about sound please help

henny · Post by **henny** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:22 am

Well, I got a GREAT Squire sound with the old Burgundy and some bits; and even with the CII, albeit a little more thunderous.

Squire's RM alone sounds nothing like you hear on the records; a la Roundabout, etc. It sounds more or less like any other toaster-equipped 4001. He's used tremelos, fuzz pedals, overdrives... the works to produce that distinctive 'grind your teeth' sound. Eddie Offord was a MAJOR factor in producing it, too - so it's no surprise that people buy Rics and find them to be unable to instantly produce the great Ric player's sound.

Infact, these days his Ric alone sounds terrible as a result of dead pickups and ailing frets. Preamp/filter/effects city, baby.

henry5 · Post by **henry5** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:29 am

I agree with Bob's post re getting convincing sounds out of not-so-convincing gear; the best Chris Squire sound I ever got was out of a maple bodied Vester "Warwick" copy I owned; it was much closer than any of my Ricks. I think the combination of the individual player and the equipment is the key, not just the equipment as many people seem to believe.

henry5 · Post by **henry5** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:31 am

Good point Henny, Chris does use a LOT of stuff on his recordings...

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:54 am

my old '68 4001 had a very Chris Squire tone to it ... especially with 4003 high gain pickups installed ... to get the Squire tone you need attack, gain and distortion ...

freewheelin · Post by **freewheelin** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:36 am

...and Chris Squire !

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:04 am

surely you don't really believe that Chris Squire is the only person on the face of the earth that can get his tone? ... but if you do I have a bridge in New York that I'd like to sell you ...

freewheelin · Post by **freewheelin** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:23 am

I spend my time trying to get this sound

that's why I bought a 4001...
I LOVE this man !

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:05 am

I agree ... searching for THE tone is fun ...

jblakey · Post by **jblakey** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:57 am

A funny thing about bass tone is that when it is embedded in the mix it can sound great. But if you strip away all the other tracks and it is alone.. well it usually sounds awkward and noisy.
I have, over the years, been trying to meld my personal tone and find that a great tone by it self is going to sound very different once tracked with other instruments. All too often I thought I had the sound I like.. but then listen back and it is blah or harsh. Add to this the fact that engineering techniques as seemingly simple as panning will greatly affect the bass tone as you move it through the stereo image. Then on top of that there are the quality engineers and producers that ride the faders and keep things dynamic and moving in the mix. I think that the volume of speculation about, and efforts to acheive the elusive sound of a great player is equally a testament to the artistry of those producers, mixing and mastering artists.

iamthebassman · Post by **iamthebassman** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:24 am

Yes, I was shocked and disappointed when as a younger man, I heard the cool bass tone I'd developed didn't have any punch when used with the band. A totally different tone was need to cut thru two guitars, drums,etc. One that didn't sound all that good by itself.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:38 am

I like to use the line 6 bass pod and when I first got it I made patches that sounded great by themselves ... then I would go play with a band and it sucked ... so I developed a sound that punches through the mix and sounds good by itself ...

many guitar players make that mistake ... they make a high gain patch that sounds great in their basement but it doesn't cut through ... we had a guy we tried out years ago who overprocessed his sound to the point you could hardly tell what he was playing ... the A B and G chords all sounded the same ...

bassists who aren't very good players will bury their sound with low end to hide flaws in their playing and guitarists who aren't very good will bury their flaws in distortion ... I love low end and distortion but there has to be some clarity ...

that is what is cool about when Geddy started playing the ric bass ... suddenly there was some clarity ... even with the distortion you could hear the notes ...

incubus2432 · Post by **incubus2432** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:42 am

I run a footswitchable eq (in my Ampeg SVP-Pro) and several effects specifically if I'm going to do any kind of solo. If I leave the solo stuff on during regular song passages the tone of my band is killed. I like to keep my rig simple but having a great tone (my version of great tone anyway) requires lots of cables/switches and effects so I can nail what I need to under different conditions.
The Rics are obviously a large part of my sound but if anything in my tone chain was changed (including me) they wouldn't sound the same through my rig where everything is in tune with everything else.....what a mess!

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:01 pm

I find playing in my bedroom and playing live are totally different, even to the point of set up. I set up a bass up at home and go play it live and the action is usually too low, I bring my stuff and set it up as the night goes along. I leave my allen wrench right on top of my head, same with screwdrivers for the pickups. (I then set the intonation at home if it needs it). Something that sounds great at home alone usually sounds bland and dull live. I agree you need a much more cutting tone live and in the studio than you do at home (even playing blues with flat wounds).
I still believe those guys' sound is much more in their hands and brains than in their equipment. Having a Ric/RW's, especially Rotos definitely helps as does having a loud amp, then you play really hard and trebly and close to the bridge and you're almost there. you have to wrench the sound out of your bass like a guitarist does. I played hard rock for a lot of years and was compared to Entwistle a lot, I got that sound from a P bass with rotos and an SVT but most of all I played hard and loud, with a Ric I would have been compared with Squire probably. Those were the two dominant RW guys when I was in my 20's playing hard rock.

Roundabout has a doubled guitar track, the guitar almost doubles the bass line note for note.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:02 pm

that is one of the reasons I like the bass pod so much ... I can take my tone with me ... I can get my sound with any good amp ...

rickenbrother · Post by **rickenbrother** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:40 pm

Jeff, do you have the large bean, or the rack mount unit?