Bleed cap question

towser · Post by **towser** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:09 pm

I've tried to search the forum for this answer, but I can't find it; forgive me if I'm rehasing old stuff here...

Can someone explain to me how the treble bleed cap works in a way that sounds good? I've been considering adding the cap to my new 360-12, but it doesn't seem like it should sound good...

Since the cap works as a high-pass filter, and given the value of the cap, wouldn't it allow only the "highest of the highs" through? It just seems like I'd get nothing but icepick from the bridge if I used that... Can someone describe the sound in words before I take the soldering irong to my guitar?

Also, is this even an effective mod with Hi Gains? I'm planning on converting to Toasters at some point, so should I wait until I do?

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:22 pm

Kevin,
I believe it's the .0047 mfd (microfarad) cap you're talking about. It filters out everything below about 500 Hz thus letting only high-mids and highs pass through. The mod is effective with any pickups.

To install it, you replace the wire between the toggle switch and the treble (bridge) pickup. The cap is cheap. You can try it and see if you like the result. If not, just put the wire back.

towser · Post by **towser** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:39 pm

Thanks... I've got the caps lying around from other projects. I may give it a shot tomorrow and see what it sounds like.

jwilli · Post by **jwilli** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:29 pm

And yes, you are correct, ICEPICK.

circles · Post by **circles** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:39 am

i recently added a .0047mfd cap to the bridge pickup in my reissue 1997. this combined with un-winding the pickups and playing through my bassman gives me a "more authentic" (but not perfect) tone.
let me knwo what you think after you do it... i'm interested to hear what others thought upon first listen

reswot · Post by **reswot** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:33 am

Well, I tried it... In general, I was underwhelmed.

The bridge pup, alone, allowed me to create a reasonable approximation of the "Hard Day's Night" solo tone, but that was about it.

I found that the neck pup overwhelmed the bridge pup in the middle position. If I rolled the volume back on the neck pup, it got too muddy.

Needless to say, I found the guitar more useful w/out the cap, so I removed it.

I was intrigued by the tone of the bridge pup, though, and suspect that the mod may work better with Toasters, as the neck pup won't be as powerful.

I'm gonna make the swap to Toasters soon, and may give it another go then. Actually, I'm thinking of using a push/push pot to switch the cap in and out of the circuit, but I'm not sure if the pot would fit in the cavity....

towser · Post by **towser** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:37 am

Oops...

Didn't realize that I had "another" user name here... I must've registered under that tag a year, or so, back....

harvey49 · Post by **harvey49** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:20 pm

Okay Paul, or others, a dumb question, but I'm hoping some one else out there is a little un sure of the instructions like me, (but not game to ask).
When you say:
".....To install it, you replace the wire between the toggle switch and the treble (bridge) pickup..... ".

Are you saying unsolder the wire from the toggle switch, solder one leg of the capacitor to the toggle switch and the pickup wire to the other leg of the capacitor. Not having an an electronics background, does it make a difference which leg is soldered to the toggle switch. I know with diodes this is critical, but capacitors????

Also, are brand types of capacitors significant, ie. one type more superior to others, or is there no difference here?

Before attacking me 360/12v64 how many others have done this mod and reckon it's worthwhile?

towser · Post by **towser** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:58 pm

The diagram on the Ric site shows the cap inline between the switch and the volume pot, which is where I put it.

I simply desoldered the lead from the switch to the pot at the pot and soldered the cap inline between the end of that wire and the middle lug on the volume knob.

People argue about cap brands all of the time on the Fender boards... I use waxed pots if I'm going for a replica look, but otherwise use ceramic disks or poly caps. I used an Orange Drop cap for this Ric mod, cos that was what I had in that particular value...

My personal opinion is that cap brand matters more for amps than for a guitar.

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:25 pm

Hi Ron,
"...unsolder the wire from the toggle switch, solder one leg of the capacitor to the toggle switch and the pickup wire to the other leg of the capacitor."

No, that wasn't what I meant. The signal path of a pickup is basically like this:
Pickup>toggle switch>control pot>output jack.

I should have written "To install it, you replace the wire between the toggle switch and the treble (bridge) pickup's volume pot." Sorry for the error, and I thank you for asking the NOT-DUMB-AT-ALL question!

And of course, Kevin's way works too. However, for the sake of signal purity, I tend to avoid unnecessary length of wire.

towser · Post by **towser** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:43 pm

I did that so that it would be easy to undo if I didn't like it...

So, anyone... Does a push/push or push/pull pot fit in a Ric 360 Cavity?

jwilli · Post by **jwilli** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:01 pm

Itr should fit in the semi-hollow bodied guitars. (300 Series)

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:05 pm

Yes Kevin, your approch is very good for temporary experimentation.

As for the PP pots, the ones from StewMac will be OK if the depth of the 360 cavity is more than 1 1/8".
www.stewmac.com

harvey49 · Post by **harvey49** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:21 pm

Thanks for clearing that up for me guys, so I guess it doesn't matter which leg of the capacitor gets soldered to the toggle switch or the pot. Do you reckon the difference that noticeable?

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:26 pm

Nope you can hook those up either way, will sound exactly the same.