Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Good discriptions, Greg.

"By the way, I saw that comment about the "poor man's SVT," and I must say that, despite its comparatively lower price, it is a severely decent sounding amp and I love mine dearly. "

Don't take that comment wrong, please. I think they are an awesome sounding amp. That is why they are called a "poor man's SVT", just because the sound is so similar. The main difference I hear is in the solidity, the punch factor, and, as Greg put it, the touch response.

I like my SVT Classic through my 4x10. The 8x10 just scares the "hell" out of everyone!

Of course, my gig is at church, so maybe!

Nah!

hmm...I guess I should keep my idiotic ramblings to myself from now on and let the people who know what they are talking about explain stuff...and now everyone knows why I'm not a science major hahaha

Here's an interesting article on the difference (or perceived difference) between Solid State and Tubes it dates back to the 70's but is still a valid discussion

"that's why an SS amp takes awhile to turn on..."

I always thought that it was Tube Amps that took longer to turn on . . . my SS amp takes about half a second to turn on after I press the on switch . . .

Having only ever played through a tube amp in a music store, I can't say I know the sound difference. The one I played through was a high-end Ampeg tube amp, plugged into an 8x10 . . . and it sounded absolutely terrible. I think this most had to do with it being in a corner, surrounded by tons of other gear and carpeting, because it was just muffled and muddy, no matter what I did with the EQ or gain . . . I would love to test out that amp in an actual playing environment, as I hear all the time here that tube Ampegs through an 8x10 are the closest thing to heaven.

Question: what happens if you have something like the Ashdown ABM500 EVOII that has a tube preamp and a solid state power-amp? How different is that from your regular tube amp and your regular SS amp, electronics- and sound-wise?

Jim,
That's a good white paper discussion. There is a difference. It's what you are used to, and how you control each circumstance. Both are valid. Some people think "tube sound" is so important they make digital plug-ins that re-create the harmonic distortion.

I used to beef u p the power supplies in 50 watt guitar amps and make them 100 watts clean! Pull out the rectifier diodes and put in a 30 amp bridge rectifier. Put the biggest filter caps I could find ( I don't remember the size anymore, 20+ years ago), and put 30 amp output transistors in. Some folks wished they weren't as clean, but I told them to just use a pedal for distortion, cuz the amp didn't have any! For those who know electronics, it took the power light a couple of minutes to "turn off", due to the size of the filter caps!

My favorite amp to do this on were the 50 watt Gibsons. THey would sing!

My Aragon 2004 takes 2 1/2 minutes for it's power light to finally die out when I turn it off.

I agree Rikk, I grew up playing through Tube amps, there weren't that many decent SS amps around then anyways, H&H and maybe WEM.

I still prefer a Tube amp with as little in the way of the signal path as possible, Gain, Bass, and Treble is as much as I need.

"I always thought that it was Tube Amps that took longer to turn on . . . my SS amp takes about half a second to turn on after I press the on switch . . . "

As I pointed out in my previous post, he had it wrong there. SS amps turn on immediately and there is a current inrush from the caps through the circuit that causes the pop you hear in the speaker right after you turn it on. Tube amps won't do anything until the heaters are warmed up, which is why you have a standby on most amps. Turn it on, wait a couple minutes for the heaters to warm up, then flip the standby to on to play and you save the life of your tubes since they aren't trying to cunduct lots of current before they are ready.

The tube amp is often darker than a solid state amp and rounder in a way because the tube amp's damping factor isn't as good as the SS stuff (damping factor is basically how well the amp controls the speakers) and also the SS usually uses a lot bigger filter caps in the power supply so they can supply bass frequencies quicker than tube amps with smaller caps can. As a result, the bass sounds tighter on SS amps usually, but not always. Tube amps usually have a lot richer and sweeter mids and highs and SS amps just can't compete in that area. Some people like the richer and fuller sound, and others having been used to the sound of SS feel that it sounds muddy with tube amps. It is a different approach that you use for either and takes some experimentation. Playing in a store as you described isn't the best environment. Listen to most recordings before the 80's and you are hearing tube bass amps. You just need to experiment with them more.

To answer your question about tube/SS hybrid amps......these are an attempt to get some of the tube character in a SS amp. The bulk of the tube character comes from the power tubes interacting with the speaker and the output transformer though, so having a preamp tube in an otherwise SS amp gets you some of the character of a tube amp, but not very much. It is mainly a cheap way to warm up all SS amps by adding a tube. All tube amps are much more expensive to build than a SS amp, and adding a preamp tube doesn't cost very much for the manufacturers.

On the other hand, all tube amps are very simple and reliable aside form periodic tube and cap replacement, and are built to last your lifetime or longer. I have an old RCA console stereo I got from someone for free that is from 1964 and has the original tubes and caps in it and still works and sounds great. I plan to replace the caps at some point and clean it up, but once I've done that, it should be good to go for another 60 years with nothing else except for a new tube or cap every once in awhile. Try that with SS stuff!

Greg, you want tube damping factor? I have two 2200uF 500V caps that will "stiffen" up the power supply....

Damping factor is related to the output stage's impedance in ratio with the load impedance, I thought. A stiffer power supply won't increase the damping factor, only a higher load to output stage impedance ratio will.

"The tube amp is often darker than a solid state amp and rounder in a way because the tube amp's damping factor isn't as good as the SS stuff "

I like to call that warmth.

Big caps prevent the ps from sagging in voltage (due to the high current draw) under peak conditions.

But aren't the caps MFD capacity limited by the rectifier?