Tube or solid state
Moderator: jingle_jangle
Tube or solid state
Has anyone actually done a side by side comparison between an all tube amp/haed and a solid state amp/head ? I am about ready to buy the Traynor YBA200 and I know I like a Tube sound but is it worth the expence when I already have a good sound with a tube hybrid Hartke ?
More throttle...Less brakes
-
kojakcurtis
- Junior Member
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:00 am
I believe it's all in your own ears. What sounds good to you might not sound good to the next guy. I'm currently in a project that has 2 bass players. I've always used tube amps and love my tone, but the other bass player uses a solid state. He loves my tone, but that's it, he says that's my tone. For his ears, he loves the tone he has through his solid state.
Hi Barry, I run an Ampeg SVT and a Trace Elliot rig. I've found that passive basses seem to sound best through a tube amp, while basses with active electronics like SS amps.
Think CS with a Rick through a tube Mashall vs the Stanley Clarke sound via an Alembic & SS GK when I saw him about ten years ago.
Think CS with a Rick through a tube Mashall vs the Stanley Clarke sound via an Alembic & SS GK when I saw him about ten years ago.
I'm just happy to be here.
I have both an SVT 2 Pro and a SVT 3 Pro. Preamps are all tube, almost identical according to schematics, with the 3 Pro having 450W of MOSFETs and the 2 Pro having 300W of 6550 tubes. The 2 Pro has more heft, solidity, and character. More "jump" factor also. The 3 Pro is supposed to be a poor man's SVT, but there is a difference in the sound/heft. F W I W
-
soundmasterg
- RRF Consultant
- Posts: 1923
- Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 1:06 pm
To me the tube amps always sound and feel more alive vs the solid state amps. There are some very good all solid state bass amps nowadays though that go a long ways towards getting a good sound for bass and many people are happy with them. I wouldn't hesitate to use a solid state amp for bass. For guitar, I won't use solid state, period.
-
jwr2
A guy I used to play with in a band was an electrical engineer ... he explained why the tube circuit sounds better than a solid state circuit ... I don't remember the scientific explanation but it is more than subjective ... there is an objective scientific explanation as to why tubes sound better ...
-
jim_morris
- New member
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:28 pm
Yea man. With a Rick you'll probably like tubes better. With some basses you can get away with solid state amps, which tend to have less personality. Ricks have the potential for seriously unique tones, more so than many other types of basses, and I think you really need a tube amp to access those tones.
By the way, I saw that comment about the "poor man's SVT," and I must say that, despite its comparatively lower price, it is a severely decent sounding amp and I love mine dearly.
By the way, I saw that comment about the "poor man's SVT," and I must say that, despite its comparatively lower price, it is a severely decent sounding amp and I love mine dearly.
A little pain never hurt anyone.
-
thinneckrick
- Intermediate Member
- Posts: 573
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:59 am
- Contact:
-
prog_rockin_metal_man
- Member
- Posts: 237
- Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:37 pm
- Contact:
"A guy I used to play with in a band was an electrical engineer ... he explained why the tube circuit sounds better than a solid state circuit ... I don't remember the scientific explanation but it is more than subjective ... there is an objective scientific explanation as to why tubes sound better ..."
it's because tube amps produce a more "true" direct current than SS amps. When the volt plate(I think that's what it's called) of a tube gets heated electrons start jumping from the volt plate to another plate. Even though you feed a tube alternating current it will still produce a steady and continuous flow of electrons which gives you a direct current. An SS amp has to use a bunch of electronic components (sorry I don't remember what they are called) to manipulate and redirect an alternating current and there is also a capacitor involved somewhere in there as well...that's why an SS amp takes awhile to turn on...the capacitor needs to charge up.
this post brought to you by 12th grade physics...I'm surprised I still remember this stuff the 12th grade was 3 years ago for me. And forgive me if I've said anything that's incorrect...I'm no amp tech or electrical engineer.
Oh and one more thing...tube amps are awesome.
it's because tube amps produce a more "true" direct current than SS amps. When the volt plate(I think that's what it's called) of a tube gets heated electrons start jumping from the volt plate to another plate. Even though you feed a tube alternating current it will still produce a steady and continuous flow of electrons which gives you a direct current. An SS amp has to use a bunch of electronic components (sorry I don't remember what they are called) to manipulate and redirect an alternating current and there is also a capacitor involved somewhere in there as well...that's why an SS amp takes awhile to turn on...the capacitor needs to charge up.
this post brought to you by 12th grade physics...I'm surprised I still remember this stuff the 12th grade was 3 years ago for me. And forgive me if I've said anything that's incorrect...I'm no amp tech or electrical engineer.
Oh and one more thing...tube amps are awesome.
"Rickenbacker!"( I shout it out whenever I spot one)
"Rickenbacker makes the best basses in the world!"
"Rickenbacker makes the best basses in the world!"
One very distinct character of a tube is that in it's current saturation it does only distore in a moderate way (like rectangular waves) whereas the SS distores in a peak wave form which gives a very unnatural and uncomfortable sound. However some MOS-FET SS reassemble the tube characteristics quite well, so that it is hard to distinguish even for a trained ear.
"The youth of today should start thinking about the state in which they want to leave this planet to Keith Richards..."! Quote by an unknown musician
-
soundmasterg
- RRF Consultant
- Posts: 1923
- Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 1:06 pm
"it's because tube amps produce a more "true" direct current than SS amps. When the volt plate(I think that's what it's called) of a tube gets heated electrons start jumping from the volt plate to another plate. Even though you feed a tube alternating current it will still produce a steady and continuous flow of electrons which gives you a direct current. An SS amp has to use a bunch of electronic components (sorry I don't remember what they are called) to manipulate and redirect an alternating current and there is also a capacitor involved somewhere in there as well...that's why an SS amp takes awhile to turn on...the capacitor needs to charge up.
this post brought to you by 12th grade physics...I'm surprised I still remember this stuff the 12th grade was 3 years ago for me. And forgive me if I've said anything that's incorrect...I'm no amp tech or electrical engineer.
Oh and one more thing...tube amps are awesome."
Better take physics again....the only correct thing in there was that tube amps are awesome!
Tubes function by heating a filament which is inside the cathode or is part of the cathode, depending on if the tube has a directly or indirectly heated filament. The hot cathode is coated in a material which makes it emit lots of electrons. These electrons would have nowhere to go, except that an anode (or plate) inside the tube has a high positive DC voltage on it, and this ends up attracting the electrons. A grid is put in between the two and the AC signal is put on the grid in most cases. The grid with the signal on it controls how much electrons get to the plate and consequently how much the tube amplifies. This is your basic grounded grid triode stage and makes up the bulk of most tube preamp arrangements. The power amp is usually setup a bit differently but you don't really need to know that to understand the basics of tube amplification. Direct current is on the plate of the tube, and sometimes on other parts of the tube too, but that just sets a baseline for the tube to swing up and down over as it works. Think of a teeter totter with the resting state being whatever the DC voltage is on the plate.
Caps are used throughout electronics and have many functions different functions depending on where they are used in a given circuit. SS and tube amps both use lots of caps. SS actually turns on quicker than tube stuff because tube amps need the heaters to warm up the tubes before the tubes can conduct. SS amps turn on almost immediately but there is a threshold that needs to be reached before they will work, and once it is reached, you hear a current inrush pop out of the speaker that you don't hear on tube amps.
If you have a tube and a transistor in an amp, and you keep increasing the signal to each, the tube starts to overdrive gradually, and as it does so it introduces harmonics which reinforce the original signal, making it louder and more harmonically rich to the human ear. These harmonics can be considered as distortion, but they are pleasing to our ears so they are ok. Transistors also introduce harmonics, though they do more abruptly, and the harmonics are not pleasing to the human ear in most cases and actually mask the original signal and make it quieter. The transistor stays clean most of the way up it's range until it will suddenly hard clip and give you all these horrible sounding distortions. The tube actually has more useable volume in many cases because of this overdriving range that transistors don't have, and the tube can be pushed over it's limits too, whereas the transistor will fail if you do this. Transistor amps are almost always setup so they will not distort the transistors themselves and instead they get their overdrive and distortion sounds from other circuits. With tube amps, the tubes are just overdriven on their own. Tube amps are almost always simpler, and will run happily with no feedback, whereas transistor amps often need lots of feedback to function. Lots of feedback tends to neuter the sound and increase frequency response but decrease touch response. If you just keep increasing the signal to a tube or a transistor, the tube will hard clip just like the transistor will and sound very similar, but audio amps aren't designed this way because it sounds bad.
MOSFETS do emulate the curve of a tube pretty well for a transistor, but they don't have the touch response or the rich harmonics of a tube and most players can tell if they play the amp because the touch response just isn't there. Many audience members would have a hard time telling between a tube amp and a SS amp though unless they do have a trained ear.
this post brought to you by 12th grade physics...I'm surprised I still remember this stuff the 12th grade was 3 years ago for me. And forgive me if I've said anything that's incorrect...I'm no amp tech or electrical engineer.
Oh and one more thing...tube amps are awesome."
Better take physics again....the only correct thing in there was that tube amps are awesome!
Tubes function by heating a filament which is inside the cathode or is part of the cathode, depending on if the tube has a directly or indirectly heated filament. The hot cathode is coated in a material which makes it emit lots of electrons. These electrons would have nowhere to go, except that an anode (or plate) inside the tube has a high positive DC voltage on it, and this ends up attracting the electrons. A grid is put in between the two and the AC signal is put on the grid in most cases. The grid with the signal on it controls how much electrons get to the plate and consequently how much the tube amplifies. This is your basic grounded grid triode stage and makes up the bulk of most tube preamp arrangements. The power amp is usually setup a bit differently but you don't really need to know that to understand the basics of tube amplification. Direct current is on the plate of the tube, and sometimes on other parts of the tube too, but that just sets a baseline for the tube to swing up and down over as it works. Think of a teeter totter with the resting state being whatever the DC voltage is on the plate.
Caps are used throughout electronics and have many functions different functions depending on where they are used in a given circuit. SS and tube amps both use lots of caps. SS actually turns on quicker than tube stuff because tube amps need the heaters to warm up the tubes before the tubes can conduct. SS amps turn on almost immediately but there is a threshold that needs to be reached before they will work, and once it is reached, you hear a current inrush pop out of the speaker that you don't hear on tube amps.
If you have a tube and a transistor in an amp, and you keep increasing the signal to each, the tube starts to overdrive gradually, and as it does so it introduces harmonics which reinforce the original signal, making it louder and more harmonically rich to the human ear. These harmonics can be considered as distortion, but they are pleasing to our ears so they are ok. Transistors also introduce harmonics, though they do more abruptly, and the harmonics are not pleasing to the human ear in most cases and actually mask the original signal and make it quieter. The transistor stays clean most of the way up it's range until it will suddenly hard clip and give you all these horrible sounding distortions. The tube actually has more useable volume in many cases because of this overdriving range that transistors don't have, and the tube can be pushed over it's limits too, whereas the transistor will fail if you do this. Transistor amps are almost always setup so they will not distort the transistors themselves and instead they get their overdrive and distortion sounds from other circuits. With tube amps, the tubes are just overdriven on their own. Tube amps are almost always simpler, and will run happily with no feedback, whereas transistor amps often need lots of feedback to function. Lots of feedback tends to neuter the sound and increase frequency response but decrease touch response. If you just keep increasing the signal to a tube or a transistor, the tube will hard clip just like the transistor will and sound very similar, but audio amps aren't designed this way because it sounds bad.
MOSFETS do emulate the curve of a tube pretty well for a transistor, but they don't have the touch response or the rich harmonics of a tube and most players can tell if they play the amp because the touch response just isn't there. Many audience members would have a hard time telling between a tube amp and a SS amp though unless they do have a trained ear.