Take It Or Leave It

mdenger · Post by **mdenger** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 7:00 am

The first single without Chris Curtis. Take a look at: covers, charts, pictures, comments, articles from music press. Just point your browser at:

http://home.rhein-zeitung.de/~mdenger/

All the other pages can be found at:

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Bistro/7695/

Nice comments are welcome.

Michael

royclough · Post by **royclough** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 1:59 pm

Whilst checking out Mike's excellent articles , why not take a look at Take It Or Leave It - A personal View from the main Needles and Pins Site

Comments good or bad welcome

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat Mar 23, 2002 6:01 am

Roy: Although I have thought of this for more than 35 years, to this day I do not understand why "Someday We're Gonna Love Again" stalled in the summer of 1964. The melody and harmonies are strong, it had a great tempo and it's hopeful philosophy suggesting a reconcilliation of lovers would seem to have all the ingredients for a successful song.

You have touched upon this failure in your article, but I am wondering if you would explore SWGLA's failure further. Surely we can't blame the group conflict as the recording came out very well. Was it too sweet for its time? Was it eclipsed by the Fab Four? Were the Serachers old news by July 1964 partly due to musical chairs played by drummers and bass players?

tim · Post by **tim** » Sat Mar 23, 2002 8:24 am

It was a good song but perhaps not 'strong' enough for the A-side of a single that had to follow-up two consecutive No.1s. Also, "Don't Throw Your Love Away" didn't sell as well as "Needles And Pins" had done so the next single needed to be a 'stunner'. The rumours about Tony's status in The Searchers must have affected sales to some degree as well. It was, and remains, one of my favourite Searchers' tracks.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat Mar 23, 2002 8:36 am

As always, another nice bit of work Michael. You are indeed right when you note that John Blunt did not fit in. He was a generation away and the loss of the singing and songwriting talents of Chris Curtis was a key factor in the demise of the Searchers' hits. I would very much like to hear John Blunts point of view on this subject.

royclough · Post by **royclough** » Sat Mar 23, 2002 9:08 am

The fact that TV uncovered a alternate take of Someday released on the triple CD set, perhaps gives an insight into the fact that the group or Tony Hatch were not sure of the song. They were stronger tracks on It's The Searchers album which would have made better singles I Count The Tears(old Drifters song) for one.
Two other factors in my view, The Searchers performance on a NME Pollwinners Concert about this time was frankly very poor, some may have seen the video clips, which has Curtis singing extremely out of tune and could have caused some damage.

Also I believe both the public's and media's fascination with Merseybeat was very much on the wane. Groups from other cities were emerging and making an impact, Kinks, Stones.

Tim may be right in his view that some fans had "got wind" of TJ'S depature and that it damaged the group's popularity. I'm not sure on that mainly because Tony Jackson failed to make an Impact in commercial terms.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat Mar 23, 2002 11:07 am

The Bad Reputation versus the Lack Lustre Hypothesis

Roy: I consider that a brief "bad" exposure or Tony's departure, while of significance to the group members, might not have been central to their poor showing in the charts with Someday.

The bad reputation hypothesis has been insufficient to put many artists out of the running in the past. While the following examples are only the tip of the iceberg some include: John Lennon, Jerry Lee Lewis and Michael Jackson.

I am thinking that a major factor was, as has been mentioned, the rather mild nature of the tune. I would go with the Lack Lustre hypothesis. When one considers the competition in July 1964 in the UK the Searchers were up against The Beatles - Hard Day's Night; The Beach Boys - I Get Around; Manfred Mann - Do Wah Diddy Diddy; and The Animals - House of The Rising Sun. Someday We're Gonna Love Again (A favourite of mine) just doesn't cut it in the energy department. Fans were rockin the summer away and grabbed a hold of the beach energy tunes in July while the Searchers' mild natured Someday was more in keeping with the goodbye song at the end of the summer vacation. Simply put, the competition was too heavy and this tune paled by comparison.

sjd37 · Post by **sjd37** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 3:49 pm

Well, that's certainly a viable hypothesis. "Someday" has always struck me as a nice, bouncy singalong number, but I don't rank it among my favorites. The B-side, "No One Else Could Love Me," was stronger, if not more commercial.

Michael, thank you for the "Take It Or Leave It" page. I, too, agree that John Blunt didn't quite fit in with The Searchers--if only they had found Billy Adamson three years earlier! Blunt was not bad, though, and I can't wait for your coverage of Blunt's greatest Searchers showcase, "Have You Ever Loved Somebody." That is an energetic and forceful song, though I must admit I've recently become addicted to the quasi-psychedelic power pop rendition of it by those Mancunians who were responsible for creating that song in the first place. Well, isn't that funny--The Searchers' first two singles after Chris left were covers of songs written by members of rival British beat groups!

admin · Post by **admin** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 6:22 am

Roy: In your article "Take It Or Leave It" you wrote Quote:“Needles and Pins”, of course changed the direction of the band, insofar as previously Tony Jackson had undoubtedly been the lead singer, actually singing lead vocal on approx. 70% of the 27 tracks (including Sweet Nothin’s and What’d I Say) the band had released prior to “Needles”.The reason for the change is conjecture on my part but I suspect that the band’s producer Tony Hatch leaned towards the less raucous vocals of Pender and Curtis.Why do you suppose that Tony Hatch suddenly leaned toward gentler tunes when he was initially interested in the harsh vocals of Jackson. Songs of the day such as House of The Rising Sun, Do Wah Diddy Diddy and A Hard Day's Night were making great gains on the chart based on a raw quality. Perhaps this illustrates, as some Searchers have claimed, that Hatch was not as helpful a manager as they would have liked. Softer and gentler may not have been the way to go after "Needles".

carr · Post by **carr** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 5:25 pm

Quote" Perhaps this illustrates, as some Searchers have claimed, that Hatch was not as helpful a manager as they would have liked. Softer and gentler may not have been the way to go after "Needles".

Tin Pan Alley syndrome. The same thing that made George Martin try to steer The Beatles into a song by a recognised Songwriter.

The London Based Ego was a huge thing . Nothing from the provinces had any merit. Even Epstein suffered from it as far as making his lads look respectable.

Tony Hatch was way too mumsy in my opinion

admin · Post by **admin** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 5:28 am

I agree John. Yet but another example that bigger is not always better. I am amazed, or perhaps just badly informed, that there has not been a detailed history of Tony Hatch on the net. If you know of one, I would be very interested in being directed to the appropriate address. I have yet to hear a glowing report of any artist managed by Hatch that sings his praises. To be fair, "Sugar and Spice" was a short but sweet success for The Searchers. Perhaps there were additional successes for which Hatch was responsible.

carr · Post by **carr** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 12:33 pm

Purley a personal Opinion ..

Jackie Trent and Tony Hatch were the last of the dinosaurs.... the Pre Beatles era.

He (and they) wrote a great many songs but most were what you would call middle of the road, mom and pop type material