Johnny and the Moondogs

anonymous · Post by **anonymous** » Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:52 pm

Tim Fletcher has written an interesting and well researched article about Johnny and the Moondogs performing in Manchester in 1958. Please use the above link and you will find the article on the menu. He welcomes your comments.

larrywassgren · Post by **larrywassgren** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 3:20 pm

I just reread this article. You did a great job on researching this Tim! I totally agree with you, it had to be '58 and not '59. Billy Fury was on his way to becoming a star in '59 and wouldn't have been playing in talent contests at this point in time. Then in 1960 The Beatles played for Larry Parnes and Billy Fury at The Blue Angel to try and get the job of backing Fury. We can see John getting Billy Fury's autograph at the Blue Angel in the book, How They Became The Beatles. Those were the days! The photos of the Hippodrome in Manchester are priceless. Great stuff.

admin · Post by **admin** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 1:50 am

I couldn't agree more Larry. It pays to do primary research as many events have been romanticized to the point where accuracy suffers. The period photos are great and certainly add to the story. I am wondering whether there are some folks around who might be able to give personal comments about the events as they experienced them. Well done Tim!

larrywassgren · Post by **larrywassgren** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 2:21 pm

Peter, I've got a friend named Alan Stratton who played in Liverpool back in the late 50's and early 60's. His first group was called The Blackcats and then he played in The Kansas City Five. He's recently bought a computer so I'm going to talk him into checking on this web-site. He's always got some good memories and was actually there at the time. He still lives in Merseyside and I should hook him up with Tim Fletcher, who knows what the two of them might come up with!

admin · Post by **admin** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Larry: This is very good news for Tim Fletcher and the rest of us as well. I have questions for the Kansas City Five and would be grateful to have the opportunity to communicate with him, on or offline.

larrywassgren · Post by **larrywassgren** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 4:13 pm

No problem Peter. He's actually coming to my place for a visit next week so I'll get him started on my computer and he'll be hooked. He knows everybody from the good old days and has introduced me to a lot of people including Ralph Ellis of The Swinging Bluegenes who is now a good friend of mine. Unfortunately Ralph is not on-line but I can call him if we come up with some questions. You are correct that we have to get a lot of information from the originals who unfortunately won't be around forever. Of course, none of us come with a guarantee.

larrywassgren · Post by **larrywassgren** » Tue May 06, 2003 12:33 pm

Finally getting back to the computer. Alan Stratton(from The Kansas City Five) is staying at my place until Sunday so he says he would be happy to answer any questions on The Beatles and any Merseybeat groups, equipment, etc.. He actually played the Odd Spot, Iron Door, Aintree Institute, Cavern, etc., during that great time and has a good memory and will not BS if he doesn't have the answer. He's the first to agree that he couldn't remember what shirt he wore 42 years ago but remembers a lot about the amps and guitars because he was definitely into them. He just mentioned the 'skiffle days' in case anyone is into that as his first group The Black Cats was the first to play skiffle at The Cavern in 1957!

admin · Post by **admin** » Tue May 06, 2003 1:09 pm

Alan: I am interested in the early days of the Iron Door. I would be interested in any anecdotes that you may have with regard to The Beatles, The Searchers and The Kansis City Five at the Iron Door. Should time permit I would also like to hear some of your memories of these same groups at the Cavern. There has been much discussion that these were tough times with the Teddy Boys and such. Were the Iron Door and the Cavern tough venues, that is was there much violence there?

larrywassgren · Post by **larrywassgren** » Tue May 06, 2003 5:02 pm

Peter, I don't have too much time right now but I'll answer more tomorrow. Alan went to the Cavern regularly from 1957 to 1963(the Merseybeat period, before all the bands left) and only saw one fight in all that time and never one at the Iron Door. And Alan says they(The Kansas City Five) were residents at the Iron Door from the very first day it opened. They were there and helped paint it before it's opening 1961. It was first called the Storyville Jazz Club. He could put you in contact with the original owner of the Iron Door if that would help as he's a very good friend of his.

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed May 07, 2003 1:32 am

Larry: I have had the good fortune to talk to the owner of the Iron Door. I am more interested in the unique memories of Alan Stratton at this point with regard to the atmosphere at the Iron Door and some memorable moments of the Kansas City Five there. I would also like his review of the Searchers' and Beatles' performances there if he is able to recall, albeit 40 years later!

larrywassgren · Post by **larrywassgren** » Fri May 09, 2003 6:07 pm

Peter, I think we did answer one good question above. The clubs were not as violent as the books all claim. Alan was in the resident band at the Iron Door, which means they were the main featured band(just as The Beatles at The Cavern). Only one fight at The Cavern and none at The Iron Door, pretty amazing. But, everyone seems to talk about the 50's and 60's and the fights(even in the good old USA) and in reality, there were few. Perhaps people have watched The Blackboard Jungle one too many times! Bob Wooler introduced The Beatles at The Cavern 292 times, did he ever get beat up there? Alan remembers being at The Iron Door when The Searchers were coming off the stage and he asked Tony Jackson where he got the tuners for his home-made Fender bass? He said they were bought at Rushworths and Drapers in the violin department upstairs and were intended for a cello which you have probably gathered from the photograph.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat May 10, 2003 2:33 am

Thanks Larry it was nice of Alan to pass this information along, please thank him for me.

larrywassgren · Post by **larrywassgren** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 4:32 pm

Just going back through this great article by Tim Fletcher and reading through the posts got me thinking on something Alan Stratton told me. We tend to think of Beatle concerts/performances as loud with a lot of screaming women(which was the case post 1962) but Alan saw The Beatles at The Cavern many times and he said there was none of the screaming and hysteria 'we' associate their performances with. There would be excitement and some talking as The Beatles took to the stage, but during each song the crowd would be listening to the music. By North America the screaming became crazy and I think that's why you see John Lennon yelling into the microphone 'shut-up and listen'. John and George both said their greatest music was never recorded and it must have been very frustrating to suddenly not be heard when you were great performers. That's when John said the music died as far as performances went as they couldn't hear themselves playing. Of course when they had the chance in the studio or before a live camera(without screaming crowds) they always 'had it' like no other group. Just thought it was interesting to hear first-hand that people actually listened to the music at The Cavern.

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 5:07 am

On the few film clips from the Cavern (on Anthology and others) you can see the place is packed, but even though it's a largely female audience, indeed they are watching and listening, and this is the post Hamburg, neatly dressed, Beatle haircut Beatles. Not only were they a very good band at this time, they were considered rather arty as well.

admin · Post by **admin** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 6:55 am

Great points Larry. Let it be known that we spare no expense or effort when it comes to documenting the history of The Beatles at RickResource.com. Tim has indeed written a very fine article and done the original reseach which is necessary in attempting to understand the early days. It was only a few years ago when it was not possible to hear from knowledgeable around the world without doing extensive detective work.