Interpretation of "new" and "used"

ozover50 · Post by **ozover50** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:46 pm

In another thread, Poor ol' Dimitris from Greece is tearing his hair out trying to source a Rick. Whilst I understand RIC's policy of not allowing dealers to ship new guitars out of the country, surely a "used" one would be OK.

This begs the question - what do "new" and "used" really mean?

No nasty inferences here at all, JH. I'm simply interested in the views of other members of the forum. Is it "new" until it is sold and leaves the store, or could a shop demo that's been played by all and sundry and has greasy fingerprints all over it and a couple of dings be interpreted as "used".

My opinion is it's "new" until first sold, whatever the condition.

Any others?

kevin · Post by **kevin** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:18 pm

That's my opinion, too, Howard. New until first sold, whatever the condition.

wim · Post by **wim** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:24 pm

I wouldn't say whatever the condition, if it has been scratched all over you can hardly still call it 'new'.

dswp · Post by **dswp** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:28 pm

"No comment"

Hot potato..

Haven't others lost their dealerships due to the same issue....

ozover50 · Post by **ozover50** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:29 pm

I guess it might depend on the amount of use it's had. Some dealers check and clean their display models quite regularly (once or twice a week), some don't. The ones that don't bother me a bit, especially if the guitar is 'high end'.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:30 pm

New gtrs can't be shipped, used ones can....but what about the grey area of 'shop soiled'? My view is new untill owned by someone (not the store!).

ozover50 · Post by **ozover50** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:42 pm

I'm not looking for RIC's interpretation here or to discuss their policy, Dave. JH may choose to chime in, but I'm interested in the thoughts of members.

It's not about RIC at all - the question was put in the context of Dimitris' problem, but it's not about the specific issue.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:02 pm

Dave--you've gotta career with Fender's "Masturbuilt™" program!!!

See thread in "Others".

Aitch, my 660-12 MB was sold me as "new" and represented to me as such (totally legally, too). When I got it, there were some minor dings and a bit of buckle rash on it (all of which I polished out with "Wilczynski Witchcraft®"). No case keys, either. But it was, by their definition, NEW. At least I had the knowledge that it was only 8 months old, according to the RIC delivery label on the shipping box.

wim · Post by **wim** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:04 pm

If an item has been in the store for say, 15 years, can you still consider it new?

ozover50 · Post by **ozover50** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:10 pm

My 4003 hung in the store for 12 months before I bought it, and it had been played - a couple of minor scratches here and there. I considered it new.

New Old Stock, Wim?

danbind · Post by **danbind** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:32 pm

If someone else, acting as his "agent", bought it, and then strummed it once, "thwaang", and then it was used, perhaps he could sell it to someone through the Rick forum. While I am from Tennessee, I am not volunteering, mind you--perhaps the Nigerian Minister of the Interior could help.

ozover50 · Post by **ozover50** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:42 pm

An interesting point, Dan. Even if the "agent" never touched it and simply forwarded it on, who would know? Of course, there would be no warranty anywhere in the world.

Personally, I wouldn't ask anyone to do that with a new guitar - the rules in place are in the interests of all parties - including international distributors!

lshaia · Post by **lshaia** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:08 pm

IMO it's new until it leaves the possession of the original authorized dealer of the instrument. I've seen RIC dealers selling "NOS" from other dealers; I would imagine that in that case the warranty would be void even though it hadn't yet reached the hands of the Great Unwashed.

Interesting question, Mr. B.

doctorwho · Post by **doctorwho** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:37 pm

A while back on eBay there were a couple of nice NOS 1970s Ricks (one, I think, was a 480 Azureglo) from a ma&pop music store in Chicago. "Back room stock", unsold, virtually mint condition, OHSC, tags, etc. My opinion: "new"? - no. "NOS"? - yes.

Just my two cents' worth.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:57 pm

NOS is quite desirable in many instances. It depends, of course, upon supply and demand.

Imagine finding an NOS '60s 360F hanging somewhere (and I like to think there are one or two still around. What would it be worth? How desirable would it be? Would a few playing scratches or corroded strings affect its value? Not by much.