He was a Friend of Mine

byrddog · Post by **byrddog** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:33 am

Just wondering...if anyone knows what brand of acoustic McGuinn used on the original "He was a Friend of Mine"? I know he recorded the song with Chris Hillman on the box set using his Rick 12 (great piece of work), but I would like to know about the first recording on Turn, Turn, Turn. Also, do you think he used a capo...third fret maybe?? I thought the picking and timing was just a tad different between the two versions.

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:04 pm

I wrote McGuinn about this very Q some years back, and he told me he borrowed a Martin from Crosby for the song.I seem to recall him also mentioning that this Martin 12 was originally a D-18 6 string, that Croz had "converted" to a 12 string. I think Croz may well still have that guitar.While we're on the TTT LP stuff, another thing I asked Roger about was the counterpoint/harmony guitar parts on "It Won't Be Wrong".I always assumed for years this was Roger and David playing against each other, but Roger said he overdubbed himself to fatten up the guitar sound. Croz Is still in the mix somewhere on rhythm.

janglebox · Post by **janglebox** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:37 am

I seem to recall him also mentioning that this Martin 12 was originally a D-18 6 string, that Croz had "converted" to a 12 string.

Crosby refers to this guitar as one of his all-time favorites in his bio Long Time Gone. It supposedly was either stolen or lost during the hazy years of his cocaine use.

firstbassman · Post by **firstbassman** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:24 am

RE: first recording on Turn, Turn, Turn ... do you think he used a capo...third fret maybe?

Others might have an opinion or might know. But in Roger's DVD, he plays TTT tuned down a half-step. Then when he's all done, he says the original was in normal tuning.

byrddog · Post by **byrddog** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:23 am

Thanks for all of the responses. When I listen to the song it sounds like a six string not a 12 ...a 12 acoustic is obviously very distinctive with the octaves..so McGuinn must have used the Martin before it was a 12??...or is it just my hearing????

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:05 am

No, Roger said it Was a 12.
You don't need a capo to do TTT; you need to spend some time relistening to the song over and over with headphones.I think Croz is doing rhythm on the Gretsch using dropped D tuning, something he's done for a long time on lots of things, to great effect.I think Croz got that D18-12 back at some point, cause there was a discussion on the CSN site/forum on gear, and they had an at home interview with photos, of Croz acoustic collection.He is Seriously into acoustics and gorgeous wood...

byrddog · Post by **byrddog** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:48 am

Well, I'm confused or I have managed to confuse everyone else. My questions were regarding the song "He was a Friend of Mine" on the Turn, Turn, Turn LP, not the Turn, Turn, Turn track. Yep, I have a 370 12 and know the TTT tune....butI'm still stuck on if "He was a Friend of Mine" was done with the Martin when it was a 6 or 12.

byrddog · Post by **byrddog** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:51 am

Never mind... I got it.

budrocket · Post by **budrocket** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:07 am

It sounds like a 6-string to me, always has, & I'd be willing to wager that it was. There were plenty of acoustic guitars around if McGuinn didn't own one of his own...there are Byrds publicity pictures from that time that show Crosby with a natural top slope-shoulder Gibson, possibly a J45 or J50, looks to be the same acoustic that Gene Clark used on the famous Shindig episode where they do "The Times They Are A Changin'." I'm sure Geno owned one of his own that he used for songwriting, there are shots of him in Columbia studios during TTT album sessions playing a 6 string Martin, possibly a 00, 000 or OM model.

firstbassman · Post by **firstbassman** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:09 am

Sorry, my mistake.
A dyslexic moment.
Saw "first recording on Turn" and my brain read it as "first recording OF Turn."
Hey, old age happens.

firstbassman · Post by **firstbassman** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:13 am

Speaking of Crosby, by the way . . .
I like Crosby. Great voice. I think ‘If I Could Only Remember My Name’ is one of the greatest albums of all time. (Having Kaukonen, Casady, Garcia and Lesh play on it certainly didn’t hurt.)
But . . . did you ever see the Woodstock movie? Throughout the entire Suite: Judy Blue Eyes, all David does is bang on his guitar like a drum. Doesn’t play a note. Granted, they hadn’t played together very long at that time. Maybe all Crosby had learned by then were the lyrics. Just thought it was strange. Some 12-string on that song might have sounded really nice.

chingnchime · Post by **chingnchime** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:58 pm

I think I can help on that one. I have a 2 show vhs interview w/ Stills from LATER W/ BOB COSTAS from the early 90s, and Stills says his guitar was very out of tune in the film because the roadies put them onstage just as the temperature was dropping and the guitars just went nuts. Probably why Cros was just beating on his.

firstbassman · Post by **firstbassman** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:14 am

Could be, could be, thanks.
And Stills played that song in his 'Open E' tuning.
Who knows what the temperature would do to strings in that tuning.
I don't know how chilly it got Sunday evening because we had already left Sunday early afternoon.
Saturday night was mild.

wayang · Post by **wayang** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:53 pm

I have some experience with the effects of cold on guitar strings...it's even worse on fingers...

chingnchime · Post by **chingnchime** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:37 am

Speaking of Stills's 'open E' tuning, is that just tuned to a standard first position E chord, or some other voicing?? I've always seriously dug his acoustic playing, except for the fact that he still uses chorus on it, which nowadays sounds really phony to me, IMO.