320 Clarification

fab4 · Post by **fab4** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:26 pm

Hmmm the more I learn - the more I need to know. Good thing I'm almost 50 - funny though when I was 20 I thought I knew everything there was to know. Oh well.

I really require some education on 320's. I thought that all US sold Rics were made with the slash style sound holes and only the models exported to the UK ie Rose Morris had the "F" style sound hole? Am I correct or some of the early US models produced with the "F" style soundhole.

I have another question on 320's are they all short scale guitars?

Lastly would I be right in assuming a late 70's -320 in 7 out of 10 condition would be worth around $800?

Thanks for any and all replies.

sloop_john_b · Post by **sloop_john_b** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 pm

Not sure about all your questions, Len, but all 310's, 315's, 320's, and 325's are definitley short scale.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:41 pm

In general, 320s had no sound holes, unless they were export RMs, in which case they were called 1996s and had "F" holes. Somebody out there is gonna have a slash-holed 320 or 325 or 310, so I have to say, "in general".

All were shorties, with a 20.75" scale. This is SHORT short.

You're probably not far off in valuation, depending upon eye appeal, color, wear, etc. "7 out of 10" is not enough information and is pretty subjective in itself.

fab4 · Post by **fab4** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:18 pm

Thanks John and Paul - hmmmm that has a Ringo to it! By George!

I now understand the short scale models and the "f" style sound hole. Would that same 7 out of 10 (if you were grading it)value apply to a model 320 with the "f" style sound hole?

sloop_john_b · Post by **sloop_john_b** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:40 pm

Len, does your late 70's 320 have an f-hole? I'm not sure, but I don't think that's common. The little Ricks aren't really my area of expertise but I think you'd certainly get more than that for it if it's as you say it is.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:03 pm

"7 of 10" is a scale of physical condition, not rarity or color. If you've got a late '70s 320 with an "F" hole, that's beyond my expertise. Is Dr. Belloff in the house?

doctorwho · Post by **doctorwho** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:24 pm

I once owned this 1981 320 MG with f-hole:

ozover50 · Post by **ozover50** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:41 am

That is definitely not ugly, Doctor! Any particular reason for letting it go? Don't answer if you don't want to.....

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:57 am

F-holes were standard on the short-scale Capris until around the late 70's when the solid-top became standard, which was reaction to the demand for a Beatle-looking 320-325. Rose-Morris instruments almost always had an 'f' sound-hole.

Most of the domestic 3/4-scale 310-325 guitars you see from the 60s and 70s have the f-hole like Gary's MG 320 pictured above.

Solid-top 325s from the 60s are quite rare despite the fact that Lennon played one...more were made with f-holes.

fab4 · Post by **fab4** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:29 am

John,

Thanks again for the update - so from your posting I take it that a 320 with the "f" style sound hole could be a domestic guitar as opposed to a Rose Morris export model?

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:51 am

Len, catagorically, yes. My post is based soley upon what I've held and seen through the years, so your mileage may vary...

A fine cross-section of these guitars can be found on Glen Lambert's site, the 325 Connection:

http://www.geocities.com/vintage325/

The Rose-Morris export model 1996 had the f-hole as a requested specification as did all hollow-body export models, but it was also possible to obtain certain models in the US with the same specs, but the model number was different; Carl Wilson had a model 330s/12, which was identical to the RM1993. McCartney's own Rickenbacker bass, the 4001-S, was identical to the RM1999.

Ultimately it may only be possible to prove a Rose-Morris pedigree with data from the shipping docs at Rickenbacker, for instruments with identical specs were sold on either side of the Atlantic.

rickinroma · Post by **rickinroma** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:22 am

Len, this is my 1967 360/12 export version. It is NOT a Rose, Morris but it features an "f" sound hole like the export Rickenbackers. The guitar's been modified into 365 with original rick spare parts

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:24 am

Thanks for the detailed clarification, John. This is one of a number of issues that sometimes confuse those of us who are RIC newbies.

I have a customer with a MG '66 that is visually identical to the one you show, Gary. I thought it was a RM...

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:26 am

No sweat Paul. I find I have to clarify things to myself sometimes, LOL....

FWIW, you can look at the 1968 Rickenbacker product line catalog, which features a MG 310 and a JG 325, both have f-holes.

fab4 · Post by **fab4** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:43 pm

Thanks to everyone on this thread as I definitely know more about this issue than I did when I started. But I must admit I liked it better when I thought "f" style sound holes were only produced for export models.

John mentioned that perhaps the only sure way to tell the difference between domestic and export models with similar "f" holes would be to examine the shipping records. How easy is it to access these records?

If you are trying to date the age of a 1960's Ric that has no serial number can this be done by date coding the pots? or are there other tell tale signs.

Lastly in the 60's did Ric use deArmond/centralab volume and tone pots?