Decline of popularity for flatwounds

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 9:46 am

I have a question for the hardcore vintage guys out there.

When was it that so many players stopped using flatwounds and moved on to roundwounds?
Was it such a breakthrough when roundwounds came out?
I prefer rounds myself, I think because that's all I've ever known. I have tried some flats before. I got a 58' gretsch duo-jet many years ago that had flats on it. I figured since it came with them and it was so old, I'd show some respect and put flats on it again. This was before I was totally devoted to nickel even. They just feel strange. They seemed stiff even for the gauge and became dead sounding pretty quick. I use gibson vintage re-issue .011's and I don't stray far from that. I've tried some other so-called "vintage" strings, but the core on the gibsons is more tense it seems. Of course since I started reading this forum, I'm intrigued by the whole pyramid thing. Just gotta try them out I guess...

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 10:41 am

I switched to roundwounds around 1972 for bass. I realize that you are talking about guitar, I've never heard of an .011 string for bass unless it's on one of those new 11 string foot wide neck basses. but seriously for bass they became popular in the early 70's. Interestingly enough many players have come full circle, I've been using flats now for a couple of years, I started with Fenders and realized that they were like putting telephones lines (mucho tension) on my basses and have tried many different kinds and am now using both Pyramids and TI's and like both. The Ti's are more slinky than the Pyramids. It was a breakthrough, a totally different sound for bass. I think Entwhistle was probably the first one, Chris Squire was also an early RW user.

ojobob2 · Post by **ojobob2** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:57 am

The only flats i have ever used (bass we are talking) were Fenders 90..wotevers....which were the heaviest tension strings ever, totally unplayable - they seemed like they were gonna break my Fender!

The other day i bought some Rotosound trubass, which are black nylon flats. Now thats a good flat!, the strings are massive (65 to 115), but only cos they would be too slack otherwise. They are totally smooth with no "clang" or finger noise. They sound very Motown like, but turn up the treble and play Entwistle's bass solo from My Generation.....oh yeah....

I basically think rounds won because they dont get lost in the mix in a live setting. Simple as that.

mortivan · Post by **mortivan** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 12:25 pm

I love using black nylons on my fretless J-Bass.

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 6:20 pm

I think (bass wise), flatwounds have a more musical tone, while rounds have a more power sound to them, and that's the way rock has gone. Man, nylons on my 4005 (a toneful guitar)were bitchen! And, like Ojobob2 says, rounds stand out in the live mix more.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:24 pm

I have some Pyramid flats on a 98 4003FG and they play great and sound great, the tension is just right for me, somewhere between Fenders (I too think that they have way too much tension even for Fender basses)and the tape wound Rotos which are very floppy to me. I like the TI's for 4001's, they are a low tension string. Both of those strings remind me of the flatwounds they used to make in the 60's when I first started playing, somewhat bright with a nice smooth bottom to them. And the feel is great. They actually sound like the flats that James Jamerson used on his P bass.
Round Wounds were a totally different sound in 1970, they were a huge fad, within two or three years I would say that almost all rock players were using them. When I bought my first Ric in 1977 I bought a set of Rotos and the salesman said, yeah get those wimpy flatwounds off it, at that point (1977) they were like horse and buggys, totally out of fashion. I don't think that they were popular because of the mix back then, because Pa's mostly augmented your sound during the 70's, they were not the main source of guitar and bass sound, they were not like they are now, this was the decade of Marshall Stacks and Double SVT's, you didn't need round wounds to cut through the mix. you just turned up!
The Pa's were mostly for the drums and vocals. And a good set of flatwounds on a Ric cuts through much better than round wounds anyway because they are much more solid sounding.

ojobob2 · Post by **ojobob2** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 3:15 am

If you think about it, all new basses from any manufactuer come with nickel plated steel rounds. A lot of players (myself included) simple think of flats as a "thing of the past" and "inferior" . The old Plink plonk sound on many old recordings to me sounds rather dull and boring. But when i think about this, The recording gear was primative, and all those fender basses probably still had the bridge cover with mute in place. So when you put flats on your bass, with the same modern amp, and decent recording gear, you get a different sound but not that "old" sound.

I guess flats just have a stigma attached to them

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 4:41 am

Back to the original question, most players switched to rounds in the early 70s, as soon as they became generally available. The reason is simple, most liked the roundwound tone better, and it's the same way today. But there will always be a hardcore group of flatwound fans.

corey · Post by **corey** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 5:15 am

With the music industry's lame attept at getting over "The New Garage Rock", I am not sure how many of the players in these puppet bands have any say as to instrument choice, string brands and types.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 9:22 am

I put a set of TI's on my 79 4001 which always had roundwounds on it, and these sound like rounds except they are clearer and have more presence. They sound like they were made for Rics. Same with the Pyramids, they are very clear. A P bass and a Ric are worlds apart as far as clarity goes, I played a 68 P with a 66 jazz neck on it for many years with rotos, and these rics with flats are much clearer and cut through much better. (with the same amps) Flats got a bad name in the 60's because there were no amps that could keep up with a guitar and remain clear. I think that's why so many rock players used fuzz boxes in the 60's. I use an SVT with different Ampeg cabs, 8X10's and 15's and get a great clear tone with these strings, cuts through much better than RW's and I turn down the treble. After I switched to round wounds in the early 70's I always wondered where the punch went, and never connected it to those old "thumpy" flatwounds. (of course I was using a P bass with a Marshall Major head and 2 Sunn 2000S 2X15 cabs loaded with JBLD140's, moved lots of air but was muddy as hell) I tried some a few years ago with my Rics and there it was! I had the best of both worlds, punch and clarity. I have a couple of Rics with rounds on them now, they sound great alone in my room, but if I bring them to a gig, I always change to the Rics with flats, for me there is no comparison, and I was a hard core Round wound guy for many years. I was compared to Entwhistle, Squire, etc. many times, haha. I think rounds are nice for solo stuff, and that "particular" sound but IMHO try some flats and you might not change back! And yes there is a definite bias against flats, I know I had it for years.

jps · Post by **jps** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:15 pm

I recently put Chromes on my '62 Jazz Bass and it sounds great with them, in fact I just got three more sets of flats to put on my basses, more Chromes and a set of TIs.

rickfan63 · Post by **rickfan63** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 6:46 am

I had a '75 4001 that I used rounds exclusively on for years and always had to deal with excessive fret wear. I lived with it though because I thought flats were dull and thuddy. When I bought my 4001V63, I decided to try flats because I didn't want to ruin the frets, now I won't use anything but flats on my basses,they work great and there are brands out there that have a nice twangy sound with that good solid bottom. (Rotos and Chromes to name two).

ojobob2 · Post by **ojobob2** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:24 am

Randy, how long did it take to wear the frets, and how often did you play it.

Im recieving a well played 73 soon, i dont wanna wear out the frets over time

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 6:55 am

Jeff,
who makes those chromes? How do they compare to Pyramids and TI's, sound and tension wise?

ricnvolved · Post by **ricnvolved** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:06 am

Bob-- Jeffrey Scott is probably referring to D'Addario Chrome flatwounds. I have tried these and they are very good strings; good tone and long lasting.