A good amp to get Beatles sound on 4003

westtexasrickenbacker · Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:08 am

Hi All,

I posted a similar msg on the amplifier section, but since I want a specific sound, I'll ask the experts who frequent the Beatles page.

I want the Beatles/60's sound out of my 4003. Can you bassists out there give me your advice on an amp in the $600 to $1,000 range that gives enough power to compete with two guitars, drums and a keyboard, without losing the integrity of the signal and distorting? (Unless I want it to distort)

Any advice would be most useful. I'm at a loss as to what to buy.

lawton · Post by **lawton** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:39 pm

My 4003 sounds quite good and quite Beatle-ish through my AC50. It's also sounds most exceptional through my '68 Defiant. Both amps, of course, are Voxes. I got my AC50 for around $950 and my Defiant for around $750.

Good luck!

milo · Post by **milo** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:05 pm

I believe that the later '60s Beatles sound was Pauls Rick through a Fender Bassman and these will be easier to find than the Voxes mentioned above (if the sound suits you). This was the early silverface version so it was the 50 watt model and I don't remember if he used a 2x12 or the 2x15 speaker cabinet. If you've got some decent music stores in your area you should probably stand a good chance of finding a used one to try as they were quite plentiful. The heads usually run from around $250-375 if they're of the silverface cosmetics. I see silverface Bassman heads show up locally several times a year and they're always on Ebay. It's nice to be able to try before you buy, though.

There were a couple of different circuits throughout the Bassman era. I'm not sure how much difference in sound there is between them if you're using the Bass channel. When Fender came out with the 100 watt version they renamed the original Bassman head as the Bassman 50.

lawton · Post by **lawton** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:15 pm

Jeff, Hey. The Defiant is the 50w version of the 100w Conqueror, the amp assumed to be used with Srgt. Pepper and apparently some on The White Album as well. It's just as legit with the Rick bass as is the SF Bassman. The Bassman, of course, is associated with the Let It Be sessions due to the film -- but Paul was playing the Hofner there.

milo · Post by **milo** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:42 pm

Lawton,
I wasn't trying to argue with or contradict your information. By "later" I only meant the era after you mentioned. I guess I should have qualified my answer instead of assuming that Alex would be familiar with the timeline. I have no idea how easy it would be to find a Defiant, Conqueror, or even an AC50 these days (especially at the prices you got yours for). I'd like to find any of those for my guitars, too.

Supposedly there was a smattering of blonde Bassman on some of the Sgt Pepper's and earlier albums but I don't know if any of that was Paul's Rick or if it was used with the Hofner.

325_fan · Post by **325_fan** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:46 am

My Gretsch 6122 and my Ricks sound awesome through my AC30CC1.

rickinroma · Post by **rickinroma** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:23 am

IMHO much more important are the speakers (size and type) than the head you use to get the "sound"
anyway I think the new Ampeg B200R should be easy to find and enough similar to the sound you are looking for...
I use an Ashdown C115 Abm300 which is not too far from the 60s sound...or my Vox Super Foundation Bass with 18' speaker..but it's not easy to find

westtexasrickenbacker · Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:04 am

Thanks to all on the input.

Lawton, I would love to get a Vox, but isn't the AC50 a guitar amp? You run the 4003 through it? That doesn't kill the speakers?

Jeff, I've thought about the Fender Bassman. I play with a lead guitarist who likes to be quite loud

, an electric rhythm guitar, a minimalist keyboard player and a drummer who is tastefully loud and not just a basher.

I use a Crate BT50 Bass Combo, which works pretty well for other little gigs I do with Acoustic guitars, a piano and electric drums, but it isn't powerful enough for the first group that is pushing more volume.

Do you think the Bassman (what size?) would do the trick for the louder group?

Francesco, I'm also looking into Ampeg's. That B200R, is it a Bass Combo?

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:51 am

Alex, go 200W minimum if you are playing rock, you might not need it all, but you will be glad you have it. Trust me, I just made that mistake and fixed it up right.

iamthebassman · Post by **iamthebassman** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:19 am

I use a Roland DB700 bass combo for most live work(250watts, 1-15"+horn), but for low-volume,small gigs I use an Ampeg B100R(100watts, 1-15"), which does just fine.
I've had good luck getting the McCartney tone(with a Ric and Hofner) from these amps for several years now. The Roland has LOTS of miles/hours under it's belt without a problem, not to mention tons of roadcrew abuse. The Ampeg stays in my studio unless we have a small gig w/o crew, so it's been pampered.

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:02 am

If you're going for McCartney's sound, you may also want to consider flatwound strings. Just be sure that the sound you're aiming for was the Ric sound. All the early stuff up to Rubber Soul was the Hofner, and its a thicker and rounder tone than the Ric.

You could get close with most of the older tube powered bass amps and flatwound strings on your bass. You can get there with solid state too, depending on how you set up the amp.

rickinroma · Post by **rickinroma** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:04 am

Alex, the Ampeg B200R is a combo, with a speaker size 15

westtexasrickenbacker · Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:10 am

Thanks Steve,

Yep, from customer reviews I've read, no matter what the manufacturers' promotional material reads, combo's of less than 200 watts seem to not make the grade in terms of the bass' volume keeping up with the rest of the band.

Plus, it seems you run the risk of blowing a number of manufacturers speakers in 100 to 180 watt combos if you crank them past about 75% of volume potential. That's the feedback I've gotten.

Thanks Ron and Greg for the info. That Roland DB sounds interesting.

iamthebassman · Post by **iamthebassman** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:17 am

The cool thing about the Roland, in my situation, playing such different basses as a Hofner and Ric, it has programmable pre-amp presets. I just have to press a switch for the Hofner presets, and then another for the Ric. Very handy. Plus it has COSM with a great tube amp model.
This is it, dressed up to look like a Vox.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/iamthebassman/acl_009.jpg

lawton · Post by **lawton** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:30 pm

Hey guys!

Jeff, I wasn't trying to be combative with my second post, I was just trying to keep the info flowing in the post. I agree that the Bassman is really necessary to cover the whole range of Paul's later bass tones; I was just adding that the JMI Vox SS amps are in that mix as well.

Alex, on the AC50 being a guitar amp, yes. And no. At that point ('64, '65) you didn't really have the amp role specificity that we now know and love. Amps were used quite often in both roles. My AC50 is a cathode rectified 2-channel "large box" version, and one the channels (normal) is really voiced better for bass than guitar. I play guitar through it, but with the bass EQ knob turned almost down to zero and with the treble EQ knob turned past 3/4.

I do agree that the speakers have a tremendous impact on the tone -- when I play my 4003 through either of my Voxes I have the amp hooked up to my Vox 2x12 cab, loaded with Weber 1230-55s. Weber's 1230-55 is their clone of the 60s Celestion bass-cone G12H30. It's built as closely as possible to the actual specs of a 60s British bass cone 12" speaker. Playing through those probably has alot to do with my feeling that the tone is close to the real thing.