Hi kids. One of the things I'm probably going to have to do before too long is to learn to dye tolex. I have searched these fora and others to no sensation of success.
I won't have to do it if I ever find cool-enough colors, but f'rinstance, I haven't found anything that approximates some of Rick's colors of the year (I vaguely recall seeing a similar turquoise somewhere, though.)
Has anybody done much of this?
If so,
1. What is the best color tolex to start with?
2. What type and brand of dye do you use?
3. What do you use to seal it, what would you use if you wanted it to yellow and what would you use if you didn't? (I have heard of people painting on clear lacquer to obtain the yellowing effect.)
4. Is there a good method for dyeing tolex?
Thanks.
Dyeing tolex
Moderator: jingle_jangle
Dyeing tolex
"rubber heads don't dent easily"
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jingle_jangle
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OK, first let's get the terminology thing out of the way.
"Dyeing" is usually understood as treating a material with a colorant which penetrates into the surface. Tolex could be dyed, but it would not have the effect you would want. When you write in magic marker on light Tolex (shame!) the solvents in the marker do penetrate into the vinyl. Yuck.
No matter how you look at it, you will be "painting" the Tolex. Although in the trade it's called "recoloring".
To do this, it must be clean and grease-free. A company called SEMS makes a good line of vinyl colorants which can be bought at automobile body shop supply stores. It comes in spray cans and quarts in lots of colors. The cool thing about the quarts is that they can be intermixed to get the exact shade you want.
Start with a light color if you want to go light (white or cream for Fender chocolate, for instance, or a dark color to go dark (black for navy blue or very dark red). Use an HVLP gun, 1.3mm nozzle, set at 25PSI, medium fan, and use light coats, but not so light that you get dry spray.
There are other flexible colorant systems on the market; I have not used them, however.
Bear in mind that this stuff will rub off eventually in normal use. Easily touched up, though.
If you're trying to do silver like an old Rick amplifier, silver Tolex is available. I'd have to dig up my source if you need it.
"Dyeing" is usually understood as treating a material with a colorant which penetrates into the surface. Tolex could be dyed, but it would not have the effect you would want. When you write in magic marker on light Tolex (shame!) the solvents in the marker do penetrate into the vinyl. Yuck.
No matter how you look at it, you will be "painting" the Tolex. Although in the trade it's called "recoloring".
To do this, it must be clean and grease-free. A company called SEMS makes a good line of vinyl colorants which can be bought at automobile body shop supply stores. It comes in spray cans and quarts in lots of colors. The cool thing about the quarts is that they can be intermixed to get the exact shade you want.
Start with a light color if you want to go light (white or cream for Fender chocolate, for instance, or a dark color to go dark (black for navy blue or very dark red). Use an HVLP gun, 1.3mm nozzle, set at 25PSI, medium fan, and use light coats, but not so light that you get dry spray.
There are other flexible colorant systems on the market; I have not used them, however.
Bear in mind that this stuff will rub off eventually in normal use. Easily touched up, though.
If you're trying to do silver like an old Rick amplifier, silver Tolex is available. I'd have to dig up my source if you need it.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
Thanks Paul. That makes sense. I wanted to see if there was a way I could tolex amplifiers to match colors of the year. I'd rather not do any in silver 
.
I wasn't sure if Tolex had properties of absorption. I don't think I want to do it this way, since I wouldn't want to expect it to need touch-ups.
I'm kind of looking at automobile upholstery vinyl online, but it is really hard to judge what would work. Even Tolex isn't the easiest stuff to work with, I can only imagine how hard something like marine vinyl is.
Still working on the idea. Maybe a good wood finish would go with anything.
. I wasn't sure if Tolex had properties of absorption. I don't think I want to do it this way, since I wouldn't want to expect it to need touch-ups.
I'm kind of looking at automobile upholstery vinyl online, but it is really hard to judge what would work. Even Tolex isn't the easiest stuff to work with, I can only imagine how hard something like marine vinyl is.
Still working on the idea. Maybe a good wood finish would go with anything.
"rubber heads don't dent easily"
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jingle_jangle
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You don't want to try to cover a cabinet in automotive or marine vinyl. Automotive vinyls are heavy gauge vinyl over a stretchy double-knit fabric--much like t-shirt material. Try to glue it with any sort of solvent-based contact cement, it will pucker due to the stretchiness of the backing. Marine vinyl has a foamed layer over the same sort of stretchy stuff. Both are very thick, and require butt joints to look good. After a few years, the material will shrink away from the joint, leaving gaps.
Tolex, on the other hand, is a single layer of thinner vinyl over a non-stretchy cloth backing, so it goes on smoothly and can be simply lapped over itself, as long as the edge is cut cleanly.
Wrapping an amp cabinet is like wrapping a Christmas gift, except there's careful planning, especially where corners are concerned. There is a water-based contact cement made which works very well. Pros use ordinary contact cement sprayed through a pressure pot gun, which puts the glue on almost dry in a swirly threadlike pattern, so no puckers and nice, even coverage results. Adhesive cleaner is used when the job is done, to get everything nice and neat again. The glue is incredibly volatile and flammable, so no smoking and good ventilation are essential to prevent brain cell death.
Wood finish...there is a 60's Fender Vibrolux on E-batty right now, for sale in Puerto Rico. It has been stripped of its Tolex and finished in stain and gloss varnish, with cane grille cloth. Looks like an old Mesa Boogie/Fender pastiche. Although it seems to be well-done, it's not too appetizing...
Tolex, on the other hand, is a single layer of thinner vinyl over a non-stretchy cloth backing, so it goes on smoothly and can be simply lapped over itself, as long as the edge is cut cleanly.
Wrapping an amp cabinet is like wrapping a Christmas gift, except there's careful planning, especially where corners are concerned. There is a water-based contact cement made which works very well. Pros use ordinary contact cement sprayed through a pressure pot gun, which puts the glue on almost dry in a swirly threadlike pattern, so no puckers and nice, even coverage results. Adhesive cleaner is used when the job is done, to get everything nice and neat again. The glue is incredibly volatile and flammable, so no smoking and good ventilation are essential to prevent brain cell death.
Wood finish...there is a 60's Fender Vibrolux on E-batty right now, for sale in Puerto Rico. It has been stripped of its Tolex and finished in stain and gloss varnish, with cane grille cloth. Looks like an old Mesa Boogie/Fender pastiche. Although it seems to be well-done, it's not too appetizing...
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
I have done a little bit of Tolex stuff in the past. The contact cement worked and the spray glue didn't unless I timed it exactly right- which I don't think I actually ever did.
I wasn't sure what the auto stuff was like- just aware that it comes in more colors than I have found in Tolex. I also know that "Tolex" is a trade name like "Kleenex," but I don't know all of the industry's equivalents.
My plan is to make some really good amps from the ground up. I'm trying to visualize a different look that is complimentary to Rickenbackers first, since that is what I like. Using Tolex that didn't rub off would make it more road-happy than doing a custom hardwood box- you know, like stained walnut and maple.
I wasn't sure what the auto stuff was like- just aware that it comes in more colors than I have found in Tolex. I also know that "Tolex" is a trade name like "Kleenex," but I don't know all of the industry's equivalents.
My plan is to make some really good amps from the ground up. I'm trying to visualize a different look that is complimentary to Rickenbackers first, since that is what I like. Using Tolex that didn't rub off would make it more road-happy than doing a custom hardwood box- you know, like stained walnut and maple.
"rubber heads don't dent easily"
The original vinyl roofs back in the '60s were Tolex®. We covered many amps and cabs with it with great success back in the day. I currently have a Musicman bass amp done in a blue Tolex® that was a color for a Falcon. We used to have a local source to buy various remnants of Tolex® in a number of colors. One thing we do now is glue on all of the Tolex®, then let it set a few days before doing the seems. This way there are no issues with gaps.
As far as the vinyl paints go I have painted many dash boards and other automotive parts in the past. These paints have been very durable in that application. I too would question the paints durability on an amp that may be continually moved around.
As far as the vinyl paints go I have painted many dash boards and other automotive parts in the past. These paints have been very durable in that application. I too would question the paints durability on an amp that may be continually moved around.
"The best things in life aren't things."
There is a good step-by-step thread with photos on covering an amp here:
http://thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?s=c2e8e8a4f0c280f38183e367e44844fc&postid=635774
I keep finding references to people using water-based Tolex glue which, if you've ever worked with large amounts of regular contact cement, should be a real blessing since it doesn't have those nasty fumes. You can find it at the bottom of this page:
http://www.usspeaker.com/amp%20coverings-1.htm
Water-based contact cement is also available from places like Home Depot at less than $10 per quart. I've got a cabinet almost ready to cover and am getting ready to do some test chunks with it to see how it works. If the cabinet is a failure I can always use it for a really swell, double-baffled outhouse!
http://thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?s=c2e8e8a4f0c280f38183e367e44844fc&postid=635774
I keep finding references to people using water-based Tolex glue which, if you've ever worked with large amounts of regular contact cement, should be a real blessing since it doesn't have those nasty fumes. You can find it at the bottom of this page:
http://www.usspeaker.com/amp%20coverings-1.htm
Water-based contact cement is also available from places like Home Depot at less than $10 per quart. I've got a cabinet almost ready to cover and am getting ready to do some test chunks with it to see how it works. If the cabinet is a failure I can always use it for a really swell, double-baffled outhouse!
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jingle_jangle
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I had heard that vibroworld was temporarily out of business. They were my Magnatone amp parts source...sniff...
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
They had posted that they were moving but that was months ago. Apparently there is more to the story. I know Antique Electronics also has some colors.
Our original source (for Tolex®) was a place called the Whoopee Bowl. I had heard that the owner was murdered but don't know for sure. Here is a local paper's story if interested.
Our original source (for Tolex®) was a place called the Whoopee Bowl. I had heard that the owner was murdered but don't know for sure. Here is a local paper's story if interested.
"The best things in life aren't things."
A few of the old Ampeg B-15's used this kind of double-baffle reflex cabinet, designed by Jess Oliver. They're said to sound better than the standard version, but Ampeg didn't want to spend the extra money and went back to a standard, single baffle. I needed a speaker for my old Acoustic head and figured I'd try it. The speaker (15" JBL E-140) is mounted to the rear baffle, which has slot-like "ports" along it's edges. The front baffle is then separated out a little bit farther forward. The front view here shows what it would look like with the front baffle removed. The side view shows both baffles in place.
I'm still waiting on grill cloth for the outer baffle, handles, corner protectors and the jack plate, and I need some of those parts before I can apply the Tolex, but I stuck it together temporarily to try it out. So far, so good. It's not as bright and crispy-clear with the twelve-string as my Traynor bass cabinet, but nothing I've ever seen is. It sounds great with both of my fretless basses and decent with my 2030 (though the big Traynor is better for that one, too). The Epi was perhaps the most interesting as the deep bottom end gives it a really nice jazz/blues tone that it doesn't have as much of through my other amps.
I'm still waiting on grill cloth for the outer baffle, handles, corner protectors and the jack plate, and I need some of those parts before I can apply the Tolex, but I stuck it together temporarily to try it out. So far, so good. It's not as bright and crispy-clear with the twelve-string as my Traynor bass cabinet, but nothing I've ever seen is. It sounds great with both of my fretless basses and decent with my 2030 (though the big Traynor is better for that one, too). The Epi was perhaps the most interesting as the deep bottom end gives it a really nice jazz/blues tone that it doesn't have as much of through my other amps.
