Cutting a new nut

milo · Post by **milo** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:58 am

I'm cutting a new nut for my 660/12 and I need a few tips or suggestions. Mark Arnquist sold me some blanks and sent me excellent instructions but he shapes the nut, lays out and starts the slots, then glues it in place and finishes the job.

I like the idea of setting a file or feeler gauges on the fingerboard and filing down to that leaving the slots a little shallower than needed, and then fine tuning them, but this requires the nut to be glued in place already. I'm worried that once I get everything right I'm going to want to finish up some polishing or shaping of the top of the nut and that it would be easier to do that with the nut off of the guitar.

Am I going to have to knock the nut back off once I get the slots cut and tuned to depth so that I can do some final polishing or shaping of the top or do I just use lots of tape and paper while the nut is in place? I'm talking about smoothing or rounding it a touch and/or taking out any little nicks that I might put into it, not major shaping or sizing. I've already got the overall shape and the size done. Am I asking for trouble if I glue the nut on, knock it loose for some final polishing, and then glue it back on again?

beatlefreak · Post by **beatlefreak** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:06 am

Why can't you hold off actually gluing the nut in place until your finished with shaping? The tension of the strings will hold the nut in place temporarily.

There is an excellent article in the November issue of Vintage Guitar magazine - Goin' Nuts by Tony Nobles in the Guitar Shop column on page 104. Step-by-stp instructions with pictures on cutting, fitting and finishing nuts from blanks.

milo · Post by **milo** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:26 am

I've got to give that one final try. I tried it a little earlier in the process and (I think) because it's a twelve-string I couldn't keep the nut centered due to the angle that the strings pulled to the tuners. It always slid one way or the other but at that point in time I was trying to mark my outer E-strings to set the overall spacing.

It did occur to me right after my original post that maybe I could leave a couple of the middle strings in place and they would pull straight enough to hold the nut until I got several of the slots close to their final depth.

That article is what made me wonder if I could pull this off without gluing the nut first as Mark does. I'm sure that if I had cut several already Mark's way would work great and speed the process up. His instructions were great so far and I'm just looking for a way to help prevent mistakes since I'm new at it.

This would definitely have been easier if it were a six-string (lol)

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:30 am

If you want to use this method, gluing a nut on is not forever.

DO NOT use super glue. Make certain that the flat area where the nut goes is nice and clean and free of old glue and any sort of bumpiness from finish, old glue (if the guitar has been worked on by a non-Rick person, chances are that super glue was used to set the nut!)

Whether you're using a new blank or re-using an old blank, sand front, bottom, and back by laying a piece of #320 paper on a smooth surface like a Formica tabletop or countertop. Lay the nut on top of the sandpaper and move the nut across the paper (not the other way around). This will assure you of a flat nut and give it a bit of tooth for the glue to grip.

Using an emery board or one of those neat foam manicure boards that come in all sorts of grits that they sell in beauty supply stores, sand the edge of the fretboard where the nut contacts, and the surface of the neck where it sits. The neat thing about those foam emery boards is that you can trim them with sharp scissors to any width, so sanding the narrow nut land on the neck is a breeze.

Make sure that the inside corner where the edge of the fretboard meets the neck/headstock land is a nice, sharp corner and as close to 90º as possible. Use a sharp chisel or file to clean up this corner if necessary.

Glue the nut into place with a couple of dabs of AR (yellow) woodworkers' glue and let dry for an hour or so.

Do your shaping, filing, etc. To take the nut off, just put a screwdriver against it and tap lightly but sharply. You can reglue it without going through all the steps, because once glued with the proper method and glue, it will fit back into place perfectly the second time.

And don't ask me why I hang out at beauty supply stores.

milo · Post by **milo** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:39 am

Paul,
Is the yellow stuff any better or worse than regular Elmer's white glue? I'm using one bakelite blank like the old Ricks had and I've got another new factory blank that is that slightly different looking material in case I want to try a different spacing.

Did you ever get my email about refinishing?

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:48 am

Better--grabs better, higher heat resistance (which means nothing in the case of setting a nut, but helps in general guitar construction).

Factory blanks, if black in color, are all phenolic (trade name Bakelite).

I answer all of my e-mails promptly...so I either didn't get it or you didn't get my answering e-mail. I don't remember answering it, so chances are it was the former. Please re-send.

qmoder · Post by **qmoder** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:30 am

Paul, I've got a 78 Les Paul Standard. The nut was in really bad shape to start with and I made it worse by trying to fix it once. It needs a new one now.
There is only one luthier that I know of around here and I don't wanna use him. Is this possible for me to do?

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:10 am

Welcome back, Dan...FYI, you should have a look at the photos of Aitch's Gretsch that were posted in my topic section. Also, I just got my MF "deal" Tennessee Rose yesterday, and it's sounding pretty nice.

On to the nut: You will need a set of specialized nut files in order to do the job properly. Stew-Mac sells a beginner's nut kit with files, vise, and spacing gauge, but it's several times what a luthier charges to do a good nut...there are also directions on their website.

qmoder · Post by **qmoder** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:11 pm

Hello Paul. I lurk in every now and then on all the Ric forums to see whats happening. Yeah I was afraid that for me do the nut would not be cost effective for just one nut.
But this thing has been sitting here for years now unused for most of the time. The nearest good luthier to me that I have heard about is in Nashville. Thats a little over a hundred miles north of here. He restores classic guitars and is by appointment only. I kinda hate to leave it up there. But its not getting any better sitting here either I guess LOL..
If you deciede to get one of the Tennesse Rose's let me know what you think? Keeping mine in tune is no picnic. I'm not real crazy about the other factor with that too. Namely the heavy strings which prohibit bending.
My Duo Jet is nothing like that. I have nines on it and its great. But it has a B-7 that I think helps a lot with that. I can see why old Chet used finger picks now too. Those strings will chew up the fleshy part of end of your fingers or your nails which ever you use to finger the thing with LOL..
I had gotten spoiled by my Strats, Ric, Thinline Tele, Mustang, Duo Jet, and the old Mustang. My two twelves are not bad either.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:30 pm

Dan, I DID get a TR. I'm only disappointed in one thing--the bar bridge (usually made like a fine piece of jewelry) is a rough die-casting. Ugh. So it will be replaced. I haven't had enough time with it to see about the tuning problem. But if you're using nines on a Gretsch, I can see why you might be having problems. Gretsches are not Fenders, my friend! Tens or even .011s are the way to go...

johneek · Post by **johneek** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:17 pm

Paul,
I just recently got a 6122-1962 that also has a "Rocking" Bar Bridge. Now I'm going to have to look at it closely to see it has the same problem as yours. At first glance the entire guitar looked like it was pretty well made and finished, but now you've got me thinking.

2 related questions:

(1) What bridge are you planning on changing to?
(2) What gauge strings did your TR come with?

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:45 pm

I will either buy a replacement RB bridge from John at Warp Drive Music, or go with the adjustable "Setzer" bridge from same source. The replacements continue to be machined from solid brass.

My TR came with 10s. They are a bit corroded, as the guitar is an '04 (which explains why they cleared them out--NAMM is coming soon. I'll be switching to TI Jazz Flat 11s next week.

On a separate topic, I am glad that they went back to the DeArmond 2000s on the Electromatic hollowbodies. They used the Mudbuckers for about 6 months there, and they were awful pickups.

johneek · Post by **johneek** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:50 am

Paul,
Thanks much!

nab · Post by **nab** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:48 am

I went to the Gretsch Adjustomatic saddle bridges on both my Gent/Classic and Rose/Tennessean. The old bar bridge on the Gent wasn't so much a problem, but the Tenny had intonation issues galore. I had the bar bridge at the oddest angles to try to get intonation close, but was still off. With the new bridge, problem gone.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:50 am

Remember: This is also a string issue. Many people swear that the rocking bar bridge intonates just fine for them. Mechanically, speaking, this is not possible, but we are talking about a tempered scale anyway, so our ears are used to hearing things slightly out of tune.