I know this is the Rickenbacker Forum but since this is my little corner here I thought I'd mention these really fine, well made guitars.
I bought one of their Casino's back in Feb. and was pretty impressed!! Excellent guitar and for the price you can't beat them. Everywell made as their Gibson counterparts! About 2 months ago I got one of their `61 Elite SG's and was knocked out with it. I recieved one of the Elite Les Paul Standard's a couple days ago from Gibson and still I'm blown away with it's quality, attention to era correct build, finish and setup! Why would one spend $7K on a Historic Series guitar that you'd feel quiezy about taking out of the house when you can get a guitar for a bit over 10% of that? This plays and sounds damn near as good as any Custom Shop made Gibson. I think these are better than the regular production line Gibson's coming out of Nashville.
My friend Warren Haynes just got an Elite Sheraton and Riviera 12-string on Monday and is really floored with the quality and tone of them.
Anyway, I love Ric's but if you're looking for another type guitar voice then look at these!!
Off topic-Epiphone Elite Series Guitars!
Moderator: jingle_jangle
Don: The Epiphone Casino certainly takes you back to The Beatles.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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FWIW, I have heard that the Washburn HB30 and HB35 guitars are made as well as the Gibson ES335 guitars they are patterned after, except for the pickups, and are actually better than the Epiphone equivalents. The reviews on Harmony Central certainly back up the reputation.
I called a Washburn dealer, and they were out of them until September. Looks like Washburn hit a home run. If I ever get a new USA built hollowbody electric, it would almost certainly be a RIC 3XX series, BUT at the $400 price tag I can get a new Washburn HB30 with fitted hard case (in Cherry Red!), my first hollowbody electric will almost cetainly be a Washburn. My brother had a Washburn solidbody electric, and it was a great guitar. Washburn reduced the "mouse ear" look of the ES335, and supposedly made other improvements as well.
I called a Washburn dealer, and they were out of them until September. Looks like Washburn hit a home run. If I ever get a new USA built hollowbody electric, it would almost certainly be a RIC 3XX series, BUT at the $400 price tag I can get a new Washburn HB30 with fitted hard case (in Cherry Red!), my first hollowbody electric will almost cetainly be a Washburn. My brother had a Washburn solidbody electric, and it was a great guitar. Washburn reduced the "mouse ear" look of the ES335, and supposedly made other improvements as well.
FWIW, the Epiphone Elite series has been renamed the Elitist. Look a their website. Don't ask me why. But I guess anyone who buys an Elitist now will be the Elitest, or definitely Eliter than Don's Elite. 
Washburn is another story. I don't want to say anything about Washburn other than to draw your attention to this story http://www.customs.ustreas.gov/custoday/nov2000/tye2.htm and let you draw your own conclusions as to what kind of company they are.
Washburn is another story. I don't want to say anything about Washburn other than to draw your attention to this story http://www.customs.ustreas.gov/custoday/nov2000/tye2.htm and let you draw your own conclusions as to what kind of company they are.
Don is absolutely right. I bought one of the 61 Epiphone Elite SG's last Saturday from Fuller's vintage Guitars in Houston, and they are indeed top notch instruments. They play and sound very well. This is my first SG and with the exception of my 64 Gretsch Country Gent, my first guitar with humbuckers! I tried out the Elite Les Paul, but the SG was so much more lightweight and comfortable. It didn't take long decide which one to get. I love all my Rics but I love my Epi Elite SG, too.
325c64 JG,325c58 JG, 325/12v63 JG, 350v63 JG, 1996 AFG, 360/12c63 FG, 360/6 Carl Wilson FG, 1993Plus FG, 660/12 FG, 425 FG (1965), 360/12 FG (1965/67), 335 FG (1966), 4003S FG (with v63 mods), 1997 RM Reissue FG
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Dave Westheimer-- That revelation about Washburn doesn't surprise me one little bit. I know a guy in my locale who was a small operations instrument dealer many years ago and he got screwed over by Washburn. A customer had bought a Washburn electric guitar (I don't remember the model) and had some serious construction problems that obviously originated at the factory. When Dave brought it to Washburn's attention, they steadfastly refused to acknowledge the problem and refused to honor the warranty. Dave ended up having to "eat" the guitar. Not surprisingly, he immediately dropped his association with Washburn and did everything he could to get the word out.
I've never forgotten that incident. In light of Dave Westheimer's link in his post concerning Washburn's slimey business practices, I can only say that it serves 'em right. Too bad they weren't completely shut down.
I've never forgotten that incident. In light of Dave Westheimer's link in his post concerning Washburn's slimey business practices, I can only say that it serves 'em right. Too bad they weren't completely shut down.
That's interesting. BUT, as I was going to buy a Korean made instrument anyway, it would not have affected me. Some of the HB35 and HB30 owners said they preferred the Korean Washburns to the USA ES335's they had previously owned. One said he saw no reason for paying more for inferior workmanship just so he could say it was American made. "Gibson" is somewhat guilty of the same type of fraud, as they are really just a trade name for CMI who builds the instruments now. The real Gibson company in Kalamazoo sold the trade rights to their name, but continues in operation under the name of Heritage as they retained the rights to keep making the instruments they always had under another name. Pieces of signed paperwork make it all "legal", even though CMI is not likely to go crowing that if you want a real "Gibson", you had better buy a guitar with "Heritage" on the headstock. Ed Roman has the details on his website.
Rickenbacker is the only major longstanding American guitar company that has not changed hands at least once over the years. There are NO cheap clones that really imitate them closely. You MUST buy a Rickenbacker if you want the Rickenbacker look and sound. I feel I would be better served to buy a Korean Epiphone Elite or Washburn HB30 or HB35 if I wanted a "Gibson" ES335. The FACT of the matter is: THOSE WASHBURN AND EPIPHONE GUITARS MADE IN KOREA ARE JUST AS "AUTHENTIC" AS THE "GIBSON" GUITARS COMING OUT OF TENNESSEE NOW! Whether they are made in Tennessee or Korea, they are not really made by the REAL Gibson anymore.
Washburn is still guilty of fraud, but in my mind CMI is just as bad as they "legally" mislead their customers into thinking they are getting a real Gibson. Washburn was stupid, CMI is not so stupid. Just deceitful.
I'll buy a new Fender before I buy a new "Gibson".
Rickenbacker is the only major longstanding American guitar company that has not changed hands at least once over the years. There are NO cheap clones that really imitate them closely. You MUST buy a Rickenbacker if you want the Rickenbacker look and sound. I feel I would be better served to buy a Korean Epiphone Elite or Washburn HB30 or HB35 if I wanted a "Gibson" ES335. The FACT of the matter is: THOSE WASHBURN AND EPIPHONE GUITARS MADE IN KOREA ARE JUST AS "AUTHENTIC" AS THE "GIBSON" GUITARS COMING OUT OF TENNESSEE NOW! Whether they are made in Tennessee or Korea, they are not really made by the REAL Gibson anymore.
Washburn is still guilty of fraud, but in my mind CMI is just as bad as they "legally" mislead their customers into thinking they are getting a real Gibson. Washburn was stupid, CMI is not so stupid. Just deceitful.
I'll buy a new Fender before I buy a new "Gibson".
Philip, I didn't mean to say you shouldn't buy a Washburn, just be aware of the facts. I know a musician who worked there for years, starting in the early 80s, and he says even back then, they were all imports and that every workstation had a set of rules posted and Rule No. 1 was to remove the Made In Korea sticker. He also says there was never a Washburn USA Custom Shop, only a little prototype shop where they made mockups for the Korean factory to copy. So the deception is years old.
As for Gibson, I don't like their current direction or their QC, but your history is incorrect. CMI owned them from 1944-69, and Henry Juskiewicz and partners bought the entire operation, including the Kalamazoo plant, from Norlin in 1986. Heritage is a good company making guitars in the old factory with many of the old workmen, but it's not the real Gibson.
As for Gibson, I don't like their current direction or their QC, but your history is incorrect. CMI owned them from 1944-69, and Henry Juskiewicz and partners bought the entire operation, including the Kalamazoo plant, from Norlin in 1986. Heritage is a good company making guitars in the old factory with many of the old workmen, but it's not the real Gibson.
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Philip-- I'm in total agreement with you concerning the "Gibson" deception. I personally know a guy who worked at the Gibson plant in Tennessee for about 4 years back in the mid-'90s. The stuff he told me about the B.S. that went on in that place made me vow never to buy any post-Kalamazoo "Gibson" electric guitar or bass.
Not that I'll be buying any new Fenders but, like you, I would buy a Fender before I would buy a Gibson.
Not that I'll be buying any new Fenders but, like you, I would buy a Fender before I would buy a Gibson.
Dave, if what you say is right, then Gibson is totally dead. Well, not quite, because if many of the old workmen are still at the Kalamazoo factory, then Heritage is a semi-Gibson. I'll have to review that article on the Ed Roman website; I probably got things turned around a bit. Either way, after 1985 Gibson ceased to exist except as a trade name. Washburn ceased before that and is a trade name stuck on an import. Rickenbacker and Fender sell USA built guitars for under $700 street price, and I don't know anybody that really competes against them in price, except for Tacoma in acoustic guitars. I wish that Tacoma would begin electric solidbody production that rivals their acoustics in quality, because the C1C Chief I got for $600 is really nicely made and innovative. It's got fabulous tonewoods to boot! Like Rickenbacker, it has its own unique tone and look.
Jeffery, I'm just disappointed that Fender doesn't seem to want to crank out any really new designs anymore, but just keep selling the same old warhorses. Of course, they have some great old warhorses. Fender dropped the MB-4 and MB-5 basses, which held promise of better things at decent prices. I'm hearing that the MIM Fenders are improving all the time. I would rather own an Epiphone Elite than a Tennessee Gibson, especially in view of the price difference.
Jeffery, I'm just disappointed that Fender doesn't seem to want to crank out any really new designs anymore, but just keep selling the same old warhorses. Of course, they have some great old warhorses. Fender dropped the MB-4 and MB-5 basses, which held promise of better things at decent prices. I'm hearing that the MIM Fenders are improving all the time. I would rather own an Epiphone Elite than a Tennessee Gibson, especially in view of the price difference.
There's an interesting review of 7 Fender Strats in the June issue of Guitar Magazine (a UK publication - I buy it at Borders here in the USA). They range all the way from a 199 pound (currency, not weight ) Squier Standard, to a 1,199 pound Custom Shop Closet Classic.
The winners? A MIM 60's classic (499 pounds) and the American-made Highway 1 at 599 pounds. In fairness, I should point out that all the instruments had their plus points, which is to Fender's credit - if you want to have the Strat experience on a low budget, a Squier or MIM Standard will do very nicely, perhaps with a pickup change.
Or you could spend $135 on an OLP MM4 (Musicman Silhouette copy) and marvel at just how much guitar you can get for your money. Sounds great through my Kustom Tube 12 (bought largely based on your experiences, Philip - thanks!)
Regardless, I have to agree with the general tone of the posters here so far - there are some incredible bargains to be had out there, if you're not too hung up on the name on the headstock. And the best bargain of all? My 650D for less than $700
) Squier Standard, to a 1,199 pound Custom Shop Closet Classic. The winners? A MIM 60's classic (499 pounds) and the American-made Highway 1 at 599 pounds. In fairness, I should point out that all the instruments had their plus points, which is to Fender's credit - if you want to have the Strat experience on a low budget, a Squier or MIM Standard will do very nicely, perhaps with a pickup change.
Or you could spend $135 on an OLP MM4 (Musicman Silhouette copy) and marvel at just how much guitar you can get for your money. Sounds great through my Kustom Tube 12 (bought largely based on your experiences, Philip - thanks!)
Regardless, I have to agree with the general tone of the posters here so far - there are some incredible bargains to be had out there, if you're not too hung up on the name on the headstock. And the best bargain of all? My 650D for less than $700
David, glad you had a good experience with the Kustom Tube 12. The great thing about it is that it doubles as one of the best dynamic preamp tube testers I ever saw for only $80 new over the internet. Remove the top screws that hold the electronics box and rotate it 90 degrees to where the tube is sticking straight up. The controls are still easily accessible. Everything goes through that one and only tube, so you can check a bunch of preamp tubes for microphonics and gain for your other amps and not know a freaking thing about tube testers!!!
My father plays his Tube 12 a lot and has ordered a new Oscar Schmidt OE30B by Washburn that Musician's Friend was selling at half regular $300 price for only $150. The H-C reviews were way positive for the guitar and basically said it was a good deal at the previous $300 price (comes with Grover tuners!). I'm going to wait and get a Washburn HB30 as my first import guitar for $400 and get a better nut, finish, woods, pickups, workmanship, fitted case, etc. The Oscar Schmidt was still listed on sale for $150 last time I looked. It would be a good guitar for a beginning student. Nobody is going to pay $300 for it when a Washburn HB30 with case is being sold for $400.
The guitar mags should test the Fender Highway 1 Strat and MIM Strat against a Rickenbacker 650D. That should REALLY shove the 650D into a backorder mode.
My father plays his Tube 12 a lot and has ordered a new Oscar Schmidt OE30B by Washburn that Musician's Friend was selling at half regular $300 price for only $150. The H-C reviews were way positive for the guitar and basically said it was a good deal at the previous $300 price (comes with Grover tuners!). I'm going to wait and get a Washburn HB30 as my first import guitar for $400 and get a better nut, finish, woods, pickups, workmanship, fitted case, etc. The Oscar Schmidt was still listed on sale for $150 last time I looked. It would be a good guitar for a beginning student. Nobody is going to pay $300 for it when a Washburn HB30 with case is being sold for $400.
The guitar mags should test the Fender Highway 1 Strat and MIM Strat against a Rickenbacker 650D. That should REALLY shove the 650D into a backorder mode.
The Tube 12 is a little wonder, that's for sure - my 650D sounds amazing through it. I wanted a compact practice amp to hide under the coffee table, so that I can plug in and play whenever I feel like it, instead of having to drag all the other gear out. It fits the bill beautifully, and was only $80! I expect I'll get to tube testing eventually....
If you're looking at an HB30, you should probably check out an Epiphone Dot - goes for about the same price. I had a Sheraton for a while some years ago, which I bought instead of a 'real' 335 - there just wasn't enough difference for me to justify the extra cost.
I'd love to see a test of the 650 somewhere - come to that, I'd love to see just about *any* current Rickenbacker get some exposure!
If you're looking at an HB30, you should probably check out an Epiphone Dot - goes for about the same price. I had a Sheraton for a while some years ago, which I bought instead of a 'real' 335 - there just wasn't enough difference for me to justify the extra cost.
I'd love to see a test of the 650 somewhere - come to that, I'd love to see just about *any* current Rickenbacker get some exposure!
Couple of things here, first, a good article on Gibson history http://www.themomi.org/museum/articles/Lloyd/3.html . I was wrong, Kalamazoo was closed in 1984, 2 years before Henry J. bought the company.
Also, I don't think this has been mentioned, but the Epi Elitist/Elites are supposedly made in Japan and have US-made electronics. At least, that's what was in the press releases when the series was announced. They are not just fancier Korean Epis.
Also, I don't think this has been mentioned, but the Epi Elitist/Elites are supposedly made in Japan and have US-made electronics. At least, that's what was in the press releases when the series was announced. They are not just fancier Korean Epis.