Paypal lie to me (twice) and get caught out...

leftyguitars · Post by **leftyguitars** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:53 am

Those of you who remember that I recently got ripped off for £1800 by an Ebay seller who decided that he didn't want to sell his guitar after I won his auction and paid for it and said I wasn't getting my money back. This was a UK auction paid for in the UK in pounds sterling with a UK bank card. Well the latest is...

My credit card company told them to pay the £1800 back to me. They eventually paid back £1762.04 and kept their £39.96 commission. I charged this £37.96 back to the card and thought that was the end of the matter.

A few days ago I got this threatening mail from Paypal...

You have received a refund from your credit card company in the amount of
the above transaction plus and additional 37.96 GBP and you have received a
credit from the seller on 17/11/06 of 1800.00 GBP USD (NOT TRUE - I got £1762.04). We received and
second chargeback on this transaction for 37.96 GBP. As you have received a
duplicate refund you will need to reimburse PayPal 37.96 GBP. You can
allow PayPal to withdraw the funds from your account. Failure to respond could result in the restriction of your account.(The spelling mistakes were in the mail).

This plainly accuses me of claiming the £37.96 back twice which I disputed in my reply as it isn't true.

Today I got this mail...

Thank you for contacting PayPal with your concern, the difference of
37.96 GBP is due to the exchange rates.

The exchange rate is a variable rate, and is updated on PayPal daily.

What exchange rate? The whole transaction was in UK pounds! It is a bit of a co-incidence that the false exchange rate difference is exactly the same as the claimed "double charge back, isn't it?

How is that for changing their story? I await their reply to my response!

randyz · Post by **randyz** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:08 am

Peter: Give 'em a good thrashing!

doctorwho · Post by **doctorwho** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:22 am

Here's what I would have put in my reply: "Charging an exchange rate when the transaction is not international is FRAUD and will be reported to the authorities immediately. See you in court!"

I have my own little 'can of worms' problem with an eBay transaction, paid for through PayPal, so I expect to be facing beaucoups problems like yours, Peter. My one advantage is being located in the same state as eBay, so I could resort to Small Claims Court if necessary.

niall_air · Post by **niall_air** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:10 pm

I had a prob that like that before.
I just sent the emails to my credit card company sat back and let them do what they get paid for.
After the sixty day waiting period I was refunded my money by visa.

lars · Post by **lars** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:43 pm

Thanks for sharing this information, Peter.
(And good luck!)

jeff_ulmer · Post by **jeff_ulmer** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:49 pm

I agree with Niall. If you don't get the credit, simply forward the emails to your CC company and explain what happened.

PayPal does have the right to charge you a handling fee on chargebacks, however this seems pretty high. The US version is $25, but is only supposed to be applicable when the recipient has emptied their PP account and the attached bank account, leaving PP to pursue collections through the courts.

jnbass · Post by **jnbass** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:06 pm

Thas 'a lotto rubbish mate!

telebob · Post by **telebob** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:05 am

I had a couple problems with PayPal that were never resolved so I don't use them anymore. It does at times hurt my ebay business, but it's still better than dealing with those people when something goes wrong.

A couple years ago there was a guy, "Tubegarden Amps" that ripped a bunch of people off for amp kits they paid for and never received. The guy at Tubegarden got a little terse when I didn't want to use PayPal. Once all the dust had settled, the PayPal people got screwed and VISA got my money back.

ozover50 · Post by **ozover50** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:42 am

Crikey, Peter! What with ebay and Paypal, you're not having much of a run!

I'm going to be selling a few things on the 'bay soon and I'm definitely not going to be offering payment via Paypal, even though I haven't had any problems to date. Too many horror stories.........

leftyguitars · Post by **leftyguitars** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:22 pm

Paypals response is "we are gonna freeze your account"...

Our records show that you have initiated two chargeback cases,
PP-204-348-582 and PP-204-348-681. You received a full refund on your
credit card for the case ID# PP-204-348-582, however you disputed the
charge of 37.96 which was resolved in your favor. You also disputed
37.96 GBP for the case ID# PP-204-348-681, which also resolved in your
favor. As you have received duplicate refund for the case ID#
PP-204-348-582, your account will be limited until we receive the
reimbursement in the amount of 37.96 GBP to resolve the duplicate
refund.

When I check back on my statements I haven't actually been credited for either "chargeback". I guess I'll have to forward it all to the CCC and let them sort it out!

leftyguitars · Post by **leftyguitars** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:53 pm

The great thing about a dispute with Paypal is that they hold all the cards and you can't win.

Account is now frozen by the way!

leftyguitars · Post by **leftyguitars** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:09 pm

Well, after receiving an assortment of threats in various snotty emails from Paypal, as well as various accusations of wrong doing, and having my account frozen, I just received this out of the blue...

"Dear Peter Levett,

Our review is complete and we have restored your account.

We appreciate your patience and thank you for your help in making PayPal
the safest and most trusted online payment solution. If you have any
further questions, please feel free to contact us again.

Sincerely,
Elizabeth
PayPal Chargeback Division
PayPal, an eBay Company"

You will notice the complete lack of any explanation or apology for the stress and aggravation which they have caused me!

Incidentally, I am still £37.96 down as I never received the original repayment!

lars · Post by **lars** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:08 am

I'm sorry for you, Don Quijote!

lyle_from_minneapolis · Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:35 am

Send Elizabeth this link! Let her read what we've been thinking...

leftyguitars · Post by **leftyguitars** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:42 am

Elizabeth? You mean our Queen? Oh you mean Paypal Elizabeth! Err, the last thing that I need is more Paypal emails!