My new 660-6 showed up yesterday from Sam Ash and it is indeed a beautiful guitar. Most striking is how light and resonant it is. Feels like it must be made out of unobtanium. Not much case candy though, no truss rod wrench etc.
I have a fairly light 52 RI tele (~7 lbs), but the Ric is much lighter.
Tuned it up and plugged it in and whoa... the action is way high. I can't play a Cowboy G chord without having the G string pull sharp.
No problem, guitars fresh from the factory and then shipped from Tampa to Boston in December are bound to drift and I do all my own setups anyway.
I check the action at the 12th fret and its a whopping 8/64ths. I sight down the neck and there is a pretty healthy bow, but it appears to my eye to be most pronounced from the 5th fret to the nut.
I get out my tools and carefully remove the TRC screws and lift off the TRC.... problem #1 2 sizable chips of gold paint off the back of the TRC stick to the finish of the guitar. Annoying for sure on a brand new guitar, but I'll wait to see how it looks after I replace the TRC before calling Ric about it.
I then get out a 1/4" nut driver and following Ric instructions give each Truss rod 1/2 turn Clockwise (righty tighty as they say).
I waited an hour tuned it back up... not much change in the neck. I repeat with another 1/2 turn..... slightly better.
How much can I go before these rods have a problem?
TR question. Action on my new 660 is too high.
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
The best I can get it down to is 6/64ths and that required me to drop the bridge a half turn as well. The nuts on the Truss Rod are as tight as I can get them and there's quite a bit of thread showing above the nuts. The TRC needs to be replaced. Looks bad when I reinstall.
How easy is Ric Customer Service to deal with? I'm not sure I want a guitar that can't get lower than 6/64ths at the 12th when brand new.
How easy is Ric Customer Service to deal with? I'm not sure I want a guitar that can't get lower than 6/64ths at the 12th when brand new.
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beatlefreak
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jingle_jangle
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Rick guitars are set up by hand at the factory to an average setup preference. As with many finely-tuned, very responsive mechanical devices, some owners may find that their particular instrument needs re-setting-up.
Jack, this seems to be your first Rickenbacker. I think it's time to take a break, call RIC customer service, and let them guide you through setup. But first, I'd loosen those rods a bit...
Whenever you adjust a truss rod, you should go a bit at a time, and then give the instrument some time (a day or two) to settle in before cranking down on it any more. The 660, particularly, has a wider, beefier neck that is slower to respond to adjustments.
With all due respect, it sounds to me like you kind of rushed this process. Oftentimes a bit of paint will come off of a TRC when I first remove it from a guitar onto which it was installed at the factory. This piece will re-align with the bit left on the headstock, about 99% of the time, so it is undetectable. Somehow, a piece has gone missing from yours...oops.
Also it is very important that the RIC adjusting tool is used, or a similarly-constructed long-shaft nutdriver (VACO makes them; an electronics supply house is where you get 'em if you don't want to use a dealer). The use of anything else (like a socket wrench) will apply way too much torque and can cause you some real grief...and this is a brand new guitar.
Call RIC and go s l o w l y .
Jack, this seems to be your first Rickenbacker. I think it's time to take a break, call RIC customer service, and let them guide you through setup. But first, I'd loosen those rods a bit...
Whenever you adjust a truss rod, you should go a bit at a time, and then give the instrument some time (a day or two) to settle in before cranking down on it any more. The 660, particularly, has a wider, beefier neck that is slower to respond to adjustments.
With all due respect, it sounds to me like you kind of rushed this process. Oftentimes a bit of paint will come off of a TRC when I first remove it from a guitar onto which it was installed at the factory. This piece will re-align with the bit left on the headstock, about 99% of the time, so it is undetectable. Somehow, a piece has gone missing from yours...oops.
Also it is very important that the RIC adjusting tool is used, or a similarly-constructed long-shaft nutdriver (VACO makes them; an electronics supply house is where you get 'em if you don't want to use a dealer). The use of anything else (like a socket wrench) will apply way too much torque and can cause you some real grief...and this is a brand new guitar.
Call RIC and go s l o w l y .
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
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beatlefreak
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jingle_jangle
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Hmm. Missed that. Makes me wonder if the dealer hadn't messed with it or had taken it in trade...some of these hang on the wall and get repair people practicing on them to get Rick experience, Inevitably they end up messed with...
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
The guitar was built in June 2006 and appeared brand new as received from Sam Ash. If factory setup means 8/64ths at the 12th fret, then a Ric is not the guitar for me.
I've played guitar for 40 years and have done setups on guitars for at least the last 20. This is my first Ric, but I've owned over 30 guitars in my life and presently own 14 electrics and a couple of acoustics, all of which I maintain. I've bult a handful of warmoth guitars over the years as well, including staining, grain filling nitro finishing, nut cutting and final setup. I've rushed nothing with this guitar. Tonight it still sits with 6/64ths at the 12th.
Tomorrow I will use a 1/8" drive ratchet with 1/4" socket and I will loosen the strings, manually bend the neck back and tighten simultaneously and unless I can get the action down to a minimum of 4/64ths it's going back.
I have spoken with Ric CS (Kenny) and he said I could send the guitar back to Sam Ash and get my money back, or I could wait till after the first of the year and send it to them on my dime for them to look at. He wasn't overly helpful or encouraging it was like, "well whatever you want to do is cool".
Paint peeling off the TRC and sticking to the headstock is never acceptable on a new instrument. It never lines up appropriately after and yes pieces of it flaked off as I lifted the TRC.
I've played guitar for 40 years and have done setups on guitars for at least the last 20. This is my first Ric, but I've owned over 30 guitars in my life and presently own 14 electrics and a couple of acoustics, all of which I maintain. I've bult a handful of warmoth guitars over the years as well, including staining, grain filling nitro finishing, nut cutting and final setup. I've rushed nothing with this guitar. Tonight it still sits with 6/64ths at the 12th.
Tomorrow I will use a 1/8" drive ratchet with 1/4" socket and I will loosen the strings, manually bend the neck back and tighten simultaneously and unless I can get the action down to a minimum of 4/64ths it's going back.
I have spoken with Ric CS (Kenny) and he said I could send the guitar back to Sam Ash and get my money back, or I could wait till after the first of the year and send it to them on my dime for them to look at. He wasn't overly helpful or encouraging it was like, "well whatever you want to do is cool".
Paint peeling off the TRC and sticking to the headstock is never acceptable on a new instrument. It never lines up appropriately after and yes pieces of it flaked off as I lifted the TRC.
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jingle_jangle
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Thanks for the credentials. You're obviously experienced with many different guitars (but not Ricks).The ratchet thing is definitely not recommended, as it develops too much torque, and anyway, I think you mean 1/4" drive ratchet, as I've never seen a 1/8" drive.
This issue of the "G" going sharp on a "G" cowboy chord is a fairly clear one; probably the nut was cut too high by a smidge. Should be easy for you or a tech to correct. You didn't mention the relief on the neck; in short, there shouldn't be any, and this is easy to check with a straight edge, strings on and tuned to concert pitch. The condition you describe could possibly show itself in excessive relief, or it could be a combination of the high nut and a high bridge setting. My first Rick--a 660/12, incidentally, although "brand new", had been messed with by a tech--something I only realized once I'd seen how Ricks are set up at the factory--and took some fettling before it played to my expectations.
If the action on your 660 was unsuitable, you should have read up a bit on Rick setups, or you could have asked us here or on the RIC corporate site Forum, for advice on getting it right. We would have taken you through it, step-by-step. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you seem to have immediately gone for the truss rod wrench, and the only time I would have done that would have been after checking relief.
If the neck is set flat (no relief) on a 660, there is no way that the clearance at the first and second fret would be unacceptable , unless the nut was inadvertently cut too high. A properly-cut nut and properly-set bridge, on a flat-necked Rick, would yield a good range of settings, to get those strings as low as you could want. This is a neck-through guitar, and the plank that forms the neck, headstock, and center of the body, unless seriously warped, should make that flat neck an easy thing to achieve.
So the step of determining relief, instead of assuming that a truss rod adjustment would solve the action problem, would be my first choice, but then, I've worked on a lot of Ricks. Of all Rick models, the 660/6 has one of the lowest-stressed necks in the lineup, and flatness should be easy to obtain, and to maintain.
The paint chipping off the back of the TRC does happen on the occasional Rickenbacker. When it does happen, the areas line up. Sorry yours didn't after the flaking. "Never acceptable"? Who else makes a TRC painted on the back like a vintage reissue Rick?
I think Kenny offered two viable options. Sorry they seemed to be difficult ones. I'd say, take it back, too, or send it back. Sam will give you a refund. Most of the people reading this on this (admittedly very-pro-RIC) Forum would feel for you.
Rickenbackers are not like any other make of electric guitar. I don't know how to put this and remain on the fence, but here goes: you seem to have your back up about this whole thing, and I personally am finding an uncomfortable, negative vibe here. Call it "attitude" if you will.
I sincerely hope that you return this guitar and that you give another example a good tryout. Then, if you decide to stay in the fold, I will say that there is no other guitar that will give the feeling that a Rickenbacker does, and we'd love to share that feeling with you. It seems that Ricks demand a lot and some put up a challenge, but they seldom "fail to proceed", to use an old Rolls-Royce euphemism.
Best of luck.
This issue of the "G" going sharp on a "G" cowboy chord is a fairly clear one; probably the nut was cut too high by a smidge. Should be easy for you or a tech to correct. You didn't mention the relief on the neck; in short, there shouldn't be any, and this is easy to check with a straight edge, strings on and tuned to concert pitch. The condition you describe could possibly show itself in excessive relief, or it could be a combination of the high nut and a high bridge setting. My first Rick--a 660/12, incidentally, although "brand new", had been messed with by a tech--something I only realized once I'd seen how Ricks are set up at the factory--and took some fettling before it played to my expectations.
If the action on your 660 was unsuitable, you should have read up a bit on Rick setups, or you could have asked us here or on the RIC corporate site Forum, for advice on getting it right. We would have taken you through it, step-by-step. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you seem to have immediately gone for the truss rod wrench, and the only time I would have done that would have been after checking relief.
If the neck is set flat (no relief) on a 660, there is no way that the clearance at the first and second fret would be unacceptable , unless the nut was inadvertently cut too high. A properly-cut nut and properly-set bridge, on a flat-necked Rick, would yield a good range of settings, to get those strings as low as you could want. This is a neck-through guitar, and the plank that forms the neck, headstock, and center of the body, unless seriously warped, should make that flat neck an easy thing to achieve.
So the step of determining relief, instead of assuming that a truss rod adjustment would solve the action problem, would be my first choice, but then, I've worked on a lot of Ricks. Of all Rick models, the 660/6 has one of the lowest-stressed necks in the lineup, and flatness should be easy to obtain, and to maintain.
The paint chipping off the back of the TRC does happen on the occasional Rickenbacker. When it does happen, the areas line up. Sorry yours didn't after the flaking. "Never acceptable"? Who else makes a TRC painted on the back like a vintage reissue Rick?
I think Kenny offered two viable options. Sorry they seemed to be difficult ones. I'd say, take it back, too, or send it back. Sam will give you a refund. Most of the people reading this on this (admittedly very-pro-RIC) Forum would feel for you.
Rickenbackers are not like any other make of electric guitar. I don't know how to put this and remain on the fence, but here goes: you seem to have your back up about this whole thing, and I personally am finding an uncomfortable, negative vibe here. Call it "attitude" if you will.
I sincerely hope that you return this guitar and that you give another example a good tryout. Then, if you decide to stay in the fold, I will say that there is no other guitar that will give the feeling that a Rickenbacker does, and we'd love to share that feeling with you. It seems that Ricks demand a lot and some put up a challenge, but they seldom "fail to proceed", to use an old Rolls-Royce euphemism.
Best of luck.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
If you insist on setting up by the numbers- a practice that really is only suitable for a factory and not for personalized adjustment- the correct numbers are 5/64th on the bass side and 3/64th on the treble. I've seen precious few instruments that couldn't be adjusted to that spec using the procedure outlined in the owner's manual. Owner's Manual
Whatever you do, don't use that ratchet wrench, or even a T-handle wrench. Use a long nut-driver, as otherwise the end of the rod is not supported and you'll easily break the truss rod. A nut-driver will generally slip in your hand before you can break the rod.
While it's not technically necessary with modern instruments, it does help when adjusting guitars that have had California-Boston-Tampa climate changes to push the neck yourself to where you want it and only then snug the rods up to hold it. As Paul points out, you might want to do this over a period of time and also allow plenty of time for your guitar to rehydrate along the way.
Whatever you do, don't use that ratchet wrench, or even a T-handle wrench. Use a long nut-driver, as otherwise the end of the rod is not supported and you'll easily break the truss rod. A nut-driver will generally slip in your hand before you can break the rod.
While it's not technically necessary with modern instruments, it does help when adjusting guitars that have had California-Boston-Tampa climate changes to push the neck yourself to where you want it and only then snug the rods up to hold it. As Paul points out, you might want to do this over a period of time and also allow plenty of time for your guitar to rehydrate along the way.
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beatlefreak
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