Reseating a fret

[thinneckrick]

Do any of my fellow rickenbrothers have any advice they can give me on resetting a loose fret ? I have my bro's Gibson explorer sitting here and the 14th fret on the low E side has popped up and will not stay down . Any suggestions ?

[ken_j]

Work some glue under the fret, either super glue or epoxy. Then clamp it in place. Don't forget to tape off the surrounding area.

[doctorwho]

I'm not a luthier, but I would think that super glue might soak into the wood and make replacing the fret in the future a problem (pulling the fret might pull the fret board, too). IIRC, the problem is that the tangs (I think that's what they are called) on the fret wire are bent and won't grip the wood. Although the epoxy/super glue solution would work as a stop-gap (no pun intended) method, I think that the 'correct' fix would be to pull the fret, rebend the tangs, and re-press (as opposed to repress, as in emotions ...) the fret in the groove.

Hopefully Dale or Paul (or Ted) will chime in.

[ken_j]

Epoxy would be my choice but I know of luthiers using super glue. The epoxy will release with heat. You can take a soldering iron to the top of the fret to heat it up as you remove the fret, this is a common practice.

[jingle_jangle]

Ken's got the best amateur solution...I'd use Devcon 5-Minute Epoxy. Don't use the half-hour stuff; takes forever to set.

Pro solution is to remove the fret and use a tang crimper to put a bit of corrugation into the tang, then re-set.

I advise against super glue--it'll make it very tough to remove.

BTW, not all super glues penetrate, Gary...there are the gap-filler types which are actually recommended for looser-fitting joints.

[rickfan60]

Yes, what Paul said. I use a fret sizer to fix problems like that from time to time. They are also handy for compression fretting.

Super glue in a fret slot will cause big problems for the next guy who has to take the frets out. Thin CA glues will penetrate and when the fret is removed will tend to tear big chunks of fingerboard out with it.

[doctorwho]

Yep, I was thinking only of the thin stuff, Paul. I didn't do too bad otherwise, so some of your wisdom is rubbing off on me!

[dale_fortune]

Here's what the Fender and Gibson Factories have used for decades in their shops: Standard super glue/Krazy Klue or any other fast drying instant glue. Don't clamp the edge of the fret, just apply a small amount of glue to the end of the lose area and use the end of a small hammer to hold the fret down for about 30 seconds. It will penetrate the fret slot and hold fast to the fret tang keeping it in place. Once it is set and dry use a single edge razor blade to remove the excess glue from the fret area. A soldering iron laid on the fret top will vaporize the hardened super glue allowing removal without damaging the wood of the fingerboard..You will find that most all competent luthiers use this same method. Epoxy is messy and takes to long to set up.

[geddeeee]

The Master speaks!!! Nice one Dale!

[dale_fortune]

Well Geddeeee, I've been around this industry for a long time...Have worked for or was factory authorized repair for Gibson, Fender, Martin, Guild, Ovation etc.etc. and of course our beloved Electro String (Rickenbacker) So when I post advice, I can only speak from experience, although there are many ways to do repairs, it's the end results that really matter...I have a friend who's been doing refrets since the early 70's, he uses a dremel tool with a .025 bit to widen the fret slots, then forces 30 minute epoxy into the slots, drops the pre-cut frets into the slots, clamps them down down with steel bars, lets it set up then levels and polishes the frets. This is one of the many ways it can be done. I personally don't like epoxy because to me it's messy to work with. Hide glue works well, it has been the woodworkers standard for centuries.

[jingle_jangle]

I use the occasional dab of super glue in a restoration, but do not see it as the panacea that most luthiers these days seem to view it as.

I believe that this is because, sadly, today, luthiers are not necessarily craftsmen as much as they are repairmen, and thus are always working to the clock in a tough business, dealing with musicians who in a lot of cases neither understand nor care what the finer parts of luthiery are. Nobody appreciates their craft, and, in fact, an entire generation of luthiers are now in place to whom craft is secondary to making a buck.

Epoxy works fine for me--I've been using the stuff I recommend for three decades.

I recently got in for repair, a Rick 12 string with superglue fingerprints and drips all over the fretboard and neck, from resetting some frets. Solution: sand and revarnish. Expensive.

Superglue fingerprints and drips are much more deadly to a guitar's finish than epoxy fingerprints, if you tend to be a bit messy. (The commonly available micropipettes that are sold as a precise way to apply superglue, still drip and put on too much for small repairs.) The epoxy prints wipe right off with a bit of alcohol when uncured, and scrape off a finished surface with a plastic spatula when cured.

Obviously, a fret crimper is the best solution, but for an owner/player who needs a quick fix and who has no experience with superglue or epoxy, epoxy comes out the clear choice because of the ease of cleanup. Which is why I recommend it.

Stew Mac--one of the bigger suppliers to hobbyists and a good emergency source for tradespeople--really pushes super glue as a solution for everything. This helps to "make it so", when in fact there are other solutions out there.

[ken_j]

I reach for epoxy most of the time since I am most familiar with it. At times I warm it in the microwave to thin it out, then put it in a syringe to apply small amount in precise areas. I also know that super glues are favored by many, that is why I included it in my post.

I had read sometime ago, possibly in one of Dan Erlewine's 'Trade Secrets", that some builders and repair men actually cut the fret slot a little wide and then rely on epoxy to hold the the frets in place. There is supposed to be some tone advantage to this method due to the fret being more solid in the wood. I just can't recall what it is though.

Jeffery, if you decide to resize the fret tang here is a link to the tool you will need. http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Pullers,_nippers,_sizing/Fret_Tang_Resizing_Pliers.html

[johnhall]

It's my opinion that superglue in the hands of a skilled technician is simply a miraculous combination- there's no end of repairs that can now be performed successfully that were impossible in the past.

But the operative word is "skilled" and most people, as Paul points out, just don't know how to use superglue. For them, epoxy might be a better choice but then the problem becomes the wide choice of epoxies out there. They are quite varied and the benefit of someone else's experience during glue selection is invaluable.

I guess what I'm saying is that this is an advanced repair whichever glue you choose to use.

[jingle_jangle]

Here's why I specifically mention Devcon 5-Minute Epoxy:

It's easy to use and easy to clean up after. It can be mixed with anything from a popsicle stick to an old table knife (I use an artist's palette knife), and cleans up with alcohol. It is actually reversible, even once cured--I've been able to peel it off a joint and redo the joint with no visible damage to the parts being joined.

Last, but not least, Devcon is available is virtually any hardware store or building supply center. I've even seen it on the rack at truck stops in Effingham, Illinois, so we know it's pretty universal in holding Mud Flap Women. (Just kidding--I'd use Aquaseal for that...)

Heating the epoxy, as Ken mentions, is a mixed bag. It does make it very easy to inject into tiny spaces, but also accelerates the cure time and increases the possibility of messes. When applicable, though, I heat it by placing dabs on my mixing surface (I use manila file folders) and using a Luxo-type swing-arm lamp to heat both components. Then I mix it and apply.

John's right that it's an advanced repair, at least for the average player or collector, who probably has few tools and, although he might be Steve Vai on the fretboard, is more Homer Simpson when it comes to handling a screwdriver or pliers...

[rickfan60]

Dan Erlewine advocates for the use of both epoxy and CA adhesives. It is Dan's belief that solid fret seating does effect the tone. I have never tested the theory but I am sure he is right. Dan suggests using epoxy to fix damaged fret slots but CA to hold down a loose fret end. I did not know that the soldering iron trick will work with CA. Thanks for the tip Dale!