Toasters in a CII 4004

cheyenne · Post by **cheyenne** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:13 am

OK, Im getting ready to give this a try. I'd like to here some input from those of you that have already done this.

I want my CII to sound more like a 4001/4003.

Is this the way to go? Do the toasters have less output? Will the toasters work with my 500K concentric pots?

Any concerns you may have will be appreciated.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:58 am

500k ohm pots are best with humbuckers. One of the 4-2-5 4004 basses I did had toasters. It sounded better than I expected. The toaster is a little smoother and has less growl than a high gain. Another way to get more bite out of a 4004 is to put in a 1000k ohm tone and volume pots, or perhaps just try the 1000k ohm tone pot.

I have a future project where I will convert two 6 pole high gains to toasters but removing the iron mushroom head slugs and putting in alnico magnets. I will then install these pickups into a 4004 and add 250k ohm pots.

this is a good way to get the single coil sound from a 4004. But then you also get the 60 cycle single coil buzz.

markbass99 · Post by **markbass99** » Thu May 03, 2007 2:37 am

My Cii had toasters when I bought it from Chris Pappas that were put in by Jeff Scott, he also did a VVT convert with 330K pots(I think). I was happy with it until I got my Laredo and heard those powerful hb1 pickups, 15k ohms vs about 8k ohms for the toasters. The toasters will give you a "4003 like" sound but the walnut in that Cii is going to mellow it out slightly and you will have to boost your volume control to get the same output.
My main reasons for switching back to hb's were:

1. I finally found an amp setup that allowed the hb's to shine and let some clarity come through.

2. I started using DR rounds and got addicted to the growl that they put out, toasters aren't going to growl like hb's.

3. I converted my 4004's to five strings and IMO the B string is better served by the hb's than the toasters.

4. I started collecting 73 4001's, if I have a hankering for a toaster fix, I pull one of those out, they all have 34 year old toasters that sound great.

zoomduck · Post by **zoomduck** » Thu May 03, 2007 6:22 am

I own the Toastered 4004 Cii Jeff talked about . Im a "single coil" snob . Found the HBs too dark but it really is a matter of taste . I like a scooped mid sound , deep bass , zingy clang on the highs with a pick . Growl....snarl.....slam . The best thing about the 4004s to me ........They hit Hard in the chest !!

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Thu May 03, 2007 10:30 am

"I have a future project where I will convert two 6 pole high gains to toasters but removing the iron mushroom head slugs and putting in alnico magnets. I will then install these pickups into a 4004 and add 250k ohm pots."

Jeff, you have mail.

incubus2432 · Post by **incubus2432** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:26 am

Scott.....my opinion is that there is something funny going on between the maple/walnut/maple sandwich on Cii's. My LK and ex-Ci which have full walnut wings have great unmuffled tone (certainly a little "darker" but clear and well rounded). My Cii always seemed mellow and, like I said, sort of muffled. I loved playing it but could never get it to sound quite right for my needs.

I can get a killer 4003 impersonation out of my Laredos so, I hate to say it, you may want to part with your Cii and opt for a Laredo if you are after a 4004 sounding like a 4003. If you like the looks and feel enough to keep it get the p/u's as close to the strings as possible for your playing style, throw on the brightest rounds you can find and tweak your EQ.

After swapping several p/u types into my 4003's I found that the tone really doesn't change that much.....the character changes some but the basic Ric tone is still there. The Cii, IMO, has an odd natural tone (even acoustically....compare it unplugged with your 4003's) and I don't think a p/u swap will be enough to overcome it. I'd be really surprised if toasters or high gains get you what you want.

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:43 am

I don't notice all "that" much of a difference with Chromes on a cii vs my old 4003 4-2-5. I notice more of the humbucker vs single coil than the wood.

I have the bass and treble flat with the mids bumped, not scooped, on the SVT!

cheyenne · Post by **cheyenne** » Thu May 03, 2007 12:13 pm

Thanks for the advice guys. Brian, I've always thought the walnut had a hand in the "dampening" of the tone.

It doesnt sound bad at all, quite good actually, just not like a 4003. And I realize the whole point of the 4004 line is in fact to be something quite different. (They succeeded).

But Im crazy that way I guess. To me the classic Rickenbacker sound I hear in my head is that of a 4003.

I have had a soft spot for a Jetglo Larado for some time. I'll just have to try one I guess.

markbass99 · Post by **markbass99** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:37 pm

Jetglo Laredo's Rock! I've had one on order for quite a while now, someday it'll show up.

Scott, I think I remember you being a fan of slimmer necks and if that's true you're going to love the neck on a Laredo, take my word on it.

cheyenne · Post by **cheyenne** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:51 pm

The neck on my 4004 CII is one of the slimmest Rick necks that I've ever played. It has the nice long headstock and everything. A little wide, but very slim.

Hence my reluctance to get rid of her.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu May 03, 2007 3:49 pm

to give your 4004 more bite try a vvt wiring with 2 500k ohm volume pots and a 1000k ohm tone pot ... it will become snarlly ... this is a similar approach the old 4001 bass had where they used 250k ohm volume pots and 500k ohm tone pots ...

edski · Post by **edski** » Fri May 04, 2007 1:31 pm

After swapping several p/u types into my 4003's I found that the tone really doesn't change that much

When I swapped the stock PU's in my J to be stacked humbuckers a bunch of folks said "you're gonna ruin the tone".

Not at all. Got rid of the buzz. Got enough power to compete with my Laredo. Still sounds like a Jazz Bass (like it or not). I think JH has said that it's the construction and woods that make the most difference in tone.

Just MHO...

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri May 04, 2007 6:26 pm

pickup type and pickup placement are very important ... I have a p-bass with Ric pickups that has a 4001 type sound ... and a fenderbird with hb1 pickups that sounds a lot like a 4004 ...