Playing 12-string

steverok · Post by **steverok** » Tue May 29, 2007 6:07 pm

Hello all, I changed the strings on my 360-12 tonight. Even with the trapeze tail piece, it still took me over two hours. Once finished, I broke a string, one of the slotted ones, and then put a new one in, incorrectly, had to take it out, re-install. My back hurts. I also noticed that I have damaged some of the finish, near the slot of the headstock, due to my use of pliers to pull the strings out. It really is a maddening experience to change the strings on the old 12-string headstock.

Anyway, I fiddled with the action and pick-up height. I often get this droning, ringing oscillation sound, especially on the B strings. Perhaps I pick too hard at times. I made the adjustments to try and reduce that effect, it seems better. Perhaps the new strings help as well. I do notice that the effect comes and goes, depending on how I hold the frets, and how I pick. I have to control my playing to avoid that sound. Does anyone else have a similar experience and challenge ?

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Tue May 29, 2007 6:15 pm

Man, you have patience! I'm a bass guy, and I would have chucked it up against the wall after about a half hour! Sorry, but it just struck my funny bone!

melibreits · Post by **melibreits** » Tue May 29, 2007 6:19 pm

Ouch, I hear you Steve; changing strings on a 12-string can be a real pain, and I don't do it any more often than I absolutely have to.... but I play my 12-strings quite a bit! A couple of years ago someone on this forum mentioned that they bend a crimp in the string at the tuning peg end before they wind it onto the peg, and that helps to keep the string from slipping out of the slotted pegs--I found that that trick certainly helped me. When I change the strings on any guitar I use a capo to keep a little tension on the string while I am winding it onto the peg; for me that has eliminated the headache of the string slipping out of the slot in the R tailpiece....

mfb · Post by **mfb** » Tue May 29, 2007 6:34 pm

Locking tuners would be so good on the 12's ...

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Tue May 29, 2007 6:45 pm

I used to use needle nose pliers to aid in getting the strings threaded in the headstock, but then got hipped to using locking hemostats.
Give that a shot.Also, take stock of just what kind of mood you're in Before starting a change.
If you have already had a bad day, my advice is, Don't make yourself more aggravated.I can restring a Rick 12 in 20-25 minutes.Wasn't always that fast, though...

jimk · Post by **jimk** » Tue May 29, 2007 7:37 pm

Wow Don, you're faster than R.M. He says it takes him 45 minutes to an hour.

I found a couple of tips that I thought I'd pass along. I haven't tried them, yet. But I will when my Ric arrives.

Before and while you restring, take that empty string envelope and slide it under the strings behind the bridge and under the tailpiece--this helps prevent the ball ends from scratching the surface of the guitar. Stick a little piece of scotch tape to the ball end. Pull the ball into the R tailpiece with the sticky side up, so it holds the ball in the groove in the R tailpiece long enough to get tension on it. It pulls loose easily once the tension is on the string.

Hope this helps.
JimK

teb · Post by **teb** » Tue May 29, 2007 8:12 pm

For one-at-a-time string changes I feed the ball end into the tailpiece and then stick one corner of the RIC polishing cloth under the strings and pull it part-way through and back between the tailpiece and the body. Once it's jammed in there pretty snugly it will keep the string end in it's slot and protect the wood at the same time. Other than the final trimming of the top end after the string is brought up to tune, I find that any time I use some sort of metal tool for stringing guitars, it's a mistake. Somehow, at some point in the process I will manage to damage something with the tool and the lasting frustration of that is far worse than being temporarily annoyed that it took a while to do the job with just my fingers.

shackleton · Post by **shackleton** » Tue May 29, 2007 8:20 pm

Something I do on all guitars is cut the string about 1 1/2 longer than the tuner it will go on and it will end up being just about the right lenght and there will be no extra sting to cut.

qmoder · Post by **qmoder** » Wed May 30, 2007 12:31 am

A lot of twelve strings not just Ric's can be pretty agraviating to change strings on. It can take up the better part of and afternoon sometimes.
Then you start wondering how much it would pay and hour to do this LOL..

steambyrd · Post by **steambyrd** » Wed May 30, 2007 2:27 am

My luthier does all of my set up work on my guitars, including string changes. I pay an annual fee to him, and all I then pay for is strings. He has no issues with any of my guitars except my 370/12. He groans every time I take it in. The fee to him is worth it to avoid the pain and suffering; kind of like changing your own oil and getting dirt and oil in your eyes and busted knuckles vs letting the garage do it.

beatlefreak · Post by **beatlefreak** » Wed May 30, 2007 3:35 am

Todd wrote:
"I find that any time I use some sort of metal tool for stringing guitars, it's a mistake."

Any metal tools to come into contact with a guitar should have masking tape covering them. This reduces the probability of damage from them.

jdogric12 · Post by **jdogric12** » Wed May 30, 2007 3:57 am

Excellent idea, Kris.

I am at about 45-60 minutes on a 12-string change. I do it Saturday mornings before anything else as a relaxing start to the weekend. It's taken years, but I no longer have issues with the headstock. Changing strings can be an art.

steverok · Post by **steverok** » Wed May 30, 2007 4:28 am

I learned the hard way. It's not that bad, but I certainly don't want to make it worse.

So, no comments on playing the 12-string ? Do most people need to play it with finesse, else the sound gets unruly, or is it just me ? I guess I'm still learning.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Wed May 30, 2007 4:31 am

I have tricks as well, and probably do at least three 12ers a week, between my own and my customers.

Tricks that I use are a combination of things that Eric (1 1/2", but it does vary from bass to treble), Don (hemostats, thumbs up!), and Todd (cloth under tailpiece) recommend, along with some other things I've learned from experience. These include taping the slotted strings into place in the tailpiece before stringing them into the posts, inserting the bridge, cover off, only after the strings are on, but before they are brought up to pitch, and the order in which the strings are strung, which eliminates any inappropriate overlaps or underlaps. I do string both outside strings (low E and octave high E) first to help load the tailpiece. Occasionally I'll tape the tailpiece to the anchor, too.

Oh, and use a string winder. Some take modification to fit a Rick 12.

I just finished (yesterday) changing strings on TWO short scale twelve stringers with Grover butterbeans--which fit no string winders in my menagerie of odd tools. THAT was a challenge. But, seriously, on most Rick 12ers, I can match that 20-30 minute time, and the string winder is the biggest time saver.

Maybe we should have a 12 string Rick string-changing contest at the SoCal 2007 confluence? That would make for a fun video!

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Wed May 30, 2007 5:07 am

Up til now I've had just a 12 with a trapeze.
Recently I bought a 12 with an R tailpiece. Fortunately the strings are fresh.

This thread has been most helpful, someday I will have to do the deed.

On my trapeze, I've always changed one at a time, leaving the old strings on til it was their turn to be replaced.

Standard practice?