Hi All,
I have a mapleglo 4003 that I love, but no matter what I do, I just can't get the action down (lower) like I have on my other basses(Fender P, Gibson EB). Is this typical of a Ric set neck or am I missing something in the truss rod adjustment? My Gibson is a set neck and it's easy to drop the action very low without fret buzz. Just keep the neck almost flat and lower the bridge. Bingo!
Not so with the 4003. Even with a reasonable bit of relief at the 8th. fret, I still have to have the strings ride off the frets at an uncomfortable height to avoid buzz. Normally I wouldn't worry about it, but I have a possible audtition coming up (provided the bass player in a friend's local group quits as planned) and I'd like to use this bass for it.
Any sage advice you experienced 4003 owners could give would be most appreciated! I love the sound and feel of this bass's neck. I just need better action!
Gettin' some (better) action on my 4003???
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
William - i think i know what you mean here, when i first got my 4003, i had trouble figuring out the best adjustments for it - and got really stressed in the process.
On mine anyway, you cant set the neck dead straight (on a bass why would you want to?)
i always know if the neck is too straight because the strings buzz against the frets in the 11th, 12th fret area. And i mean your fretting hand makes the buzz as you press them down. Its odd.
There is a knack to setting these things up, but its kinda impossible to describe without showing someone i think.
On mine anyway, you cant set the neck dead straight (on a bass why would you want to?)
i always know if the neck is too straight because the strings buzz against the frets in the 11th, 12th fret area. And i mean your fretting hand makes the buzz as you press them down. Its odd.
There is a knack to setting these things up, but its kinda impossible to describe without showing someone i think.
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jwr2
Jeff - so you have NO relief at the 12th fret, even on your 5 string?
The email address shown is down, you can email me at [email protected]
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rickenbrother
- RRF Moderator
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All four of my Rick basses have perfectly straight necks, it keeps them intonated better and sounding and playing at their best. I believe John Hall stated on this forum that the 4003 was designed to be set up with a straight neck.
William, is your bridge sitting properly in the tailpiece ? Maybe the bridge is not all the way down in it's pocket or is rocked forward or towards the back of the tailpiece.
William, is your bridge sitting properly in the tailpiece ? Maybe the bridge is not all the way down in it's pocket or is rocked forward or towards the back of the tailpiece.
JETGLO should officially be renamed JETGLO ROCKS! 
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docbass
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jwr2
ok none of my basses are truly 100% flat ... but I make them all as flat as possible ...
Every bass is a little different ...
My MB 4003s5 is interesting ... the action is actually higher at the 10th fret than it is at the 20th fret ...
so an almost flat neck with a little curve up at both ends is perfect for me ...
plus for a 5 string the flatter the neck the tighter the b string is ...
Every bass is a little different ...
My MB 4003s5 is interesting ... the action is actually higher at the 10th fret than it is at the 20th fret ...
so an almost flat neck with a little curve up at both ends is perfect for me ...
plus for a 5 string the flatter the neck the tighter the b string is ...
A bass string doesn't know what brand of neck it is stretched over. To get the lowest possible action, the string will dictate the precise curvature of the fretboard that is needed for that particular string.
If the 4003 was designed to intonate better with a perfectly straight neck, then adding positive bow will cause sharpness in the middle of the neck, as that is where action will be raised.
If you want the lowest possible action, then positive bow is a necessity, especially at the lower to middle frets where most notes are played. Additionally, it may be necessary to make the fretboard "dive" a bit at the highest frets, as your only option there to prevent buzzing is to increase the string angle, either by raising the saddles or diving the fretboard. Truss rod adjustments only compensate for buzzing from the nut to middle of the fretboard. I adjust saddle string height for minimal buzzing at the highest frets, then adjust truss rods for minimal buzzing from 12th fret to the nut. Whatever that turns out to be, that is your minimum action height for that particular guitar or bass unless you want to do some VERY precise neck/fretboard work. After doing some setups on my own, I quickly realized that not all guitars and basses were created equal. Not all strings are created equal either.
My 4004L has a neck that is slightly sprung near the heel (positive bow). This is a common bass neck problem. That is why necks are now reinforced with graphite by some manufacturers. No way will you get low action with this problem, unless you accept major buzzing above the 12th fret. Since my 4004L has a maple neck, it can be corrected with a jig and a heat lamp, but that takes time and aggravation. Maple is strong and toneful, but it is not the most stable wood for necks (checking tonewood properties on various websites confirmed this). Maple's bending properties under heat application are used by many manufacturers to make curved wood pieces. Don't ever let your maple neck get hot (140 degrees Fahrenheit and above)unless you are moving it around! Since my neck is finished in Jetglo, that means it is NOT a bass for playing outside on a hot sunny day in full sunlight. If maple is uncomfortably hot to the touch, then it is hot enough to be undergoing shape changes.
BTW, my best neck is on my Tacoma Chief. It just happens to have a mahogany/rosewood neck. Mahogany was noted as a more stable wood than maple, even if it is not as strong as maple. It was set up to perfection by Tacoma, and only slight occasional truss rod adjustments keeps everything in perfect alignment. Everybody who plays it comments on the nice low action, perfect intonation, tonal balance between high and low notes, rich ringing overtones, and incredibly light weight. The neck/body joint design on the Chief is probably different than any other acoustic guitar on the market. A lot of thought went into that guitar design, and it was obviously hung together by experts. It's rather plain to look at, but that certainly doesn't hurt the sound or action. It taught me how a neck should be shaped. None of the basses I have owned have held such close tolerances in the neck over time. I am of the opinion now that graphite reinforcement is almost an absolute necessity if guaranteed stability of a bass neck is expected. John Entwistle loved low action as much as any bassist ever did, and he didn't play Status Graphite basses just for the radical looks.
If I ever consider another expensive bass, I am going to try a Status Graphite. I hope RIC comes out with some graphite reinforcements in their bass necks at least. Guitars are less affected by neck warpage, it seems, at least in my own experience.
If the 4003 was designed to intonate better with a perfectly straight neck, then adding positive bow will cause sharpness in the middle of the neck, as that is where action will be raised.
If you want the lowest possible action, then positive bow is a necessity, especially at the lower to middle frets where most notes are played. Additionally, it may be necessary to make the fretboard "dive" a bit at the highest frets, as your only option there to prevent buzzing is to increase the string angle, either by raising the saddles or diving the fretboard. Truss rod adjustments only compensate for buzzing from the nut to middle of the fretboard. I adjust saddle string height for minimal buzzing at the highest frets, then adjust truss rods for minimal buzzing from 12th fret to the nut. Whatever that turns out to be, that is your minimum action height for that particular guitar or bass unless you want to do some VERY precise neck/fretboard work. After doing some setups on my own, I quickly realized that not all guitars and basses were created equal. Not all strings are created equal either.
My 4004L has a neck that is slightly sprung near the heel (positive bow). This is a common bass neck problem. That is why necks are now reinforced with graphite by some manufacturers. No way will you get low action with this problem, unless you accept major buzzing above the 12th fret. Since my 4004L has a maple neck, it can be corrected with a jig and a heat lamp, but that takes time and aggravation. Maple is strong and toneful, but it is not the most stable wood for necks (checking tonewood properties on various websites confirmed this). Maple's bending properties under heat application are used by many manufacturers to make curved wood pieces. Don't ever let your maple neck get hot (140 degrees Fahrenheit and above)unless you are moving it around! Since my neck is finished in Jetglo, that means it is NOT a bass for playing outside on a hot sunny day in full sunlight. If maple is uncomfortably hot to the touch, then it is hot enough to be undergoing shape changes.
BTW, my best neck is on my Tacoma Chief. It just happens to have a mahogany/rosewood neck. Mahogany was noted as a more stable wood than maple, even if it is not as strong as maple. It was set up to perfection by Tacoma, and only slight occasional truss rod adjustments keeps everything in perfect alignment. Everybody who plays it comments on the nice low action, perfect intonation, tonal balance between high and low notes, rich ringing overtones, and incredibly light weight. The neck/body joint design on the Chief is probably different than any other acoustic guitar on the market. A lot of thought went into that guitar design, and it was obviously hung together by experts. It's rather plain to look at, but that certainly doesn't hurt the sound or action. It taught me how a neck should be shaped. None of the basses I have owned have held such close tolerances in the neck over time. I am of the opinion now that graphite reinforcement is almost an absolute necessity if guaranteed stability of a bass neck is expected. John Entwistle loved low action as much as any bassist ever did, and he didn't play Status Graphite basses just for the radical looks.
If I ever consider another expensive bass, I am going to try a Status Graphite. I hope RIC comes out with some graphite reinforcements in their bass necks at least. Guitars are less affected by neck warpage, it seems, at least in my own experience.
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docbass
Wow, thanks for all of the info and hints. I took it to the shop yesterday (the only bass I've ever owned that I couldn't get the neck set as I like). Not a big deal, but I've been spoiled by the simplicity/ease of adjusting my other basses, I guess.
The luthier thinks the board is just about flat enough and is going to take the nut grooves down just a fraction and readjust the rod and bridge. I always thought the F through G notes on the e-string required a bit of extra pressure. Maybe this will help. Should be intersting to see how it comes out. I'll report back afterwards.
The luthier thinks the board is just about flat enough and is going to take the nut grooves down just a fraction and readjust the rod and bridge. I always thought the F through G notes on the e-string required a bit of extra pressure. Maybe this will help. Should be intersting to see how it comes out. I'll report back afterwards.
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jwr2
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docbass
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jwr2
the nut is often over looked ... but it is important as is the bridge and truss rod ...
I find the replacement nuts from Ric need to be cut down for good action ... the old 70's ric basses seem to be cut fine ...
Quite often a new ric in a music store is set up with a high nut and a high bridge ... this makes playing it a lot of work ... sort of like a stand up bass violin ...
I find the replacement nuts from Ric need to be cut down for good action ... the old 70's ric basses seem to be cut fine ...
Quite often a new ric in a music store is set up with a high nut and a high bridge ... this makes playing it a lot of work ... sort of like a stand up bass violin ...
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docbass
I agree Jeff. I didn't think to examine the nut when I was having trouble setting up my 4003. Once the luthier pointed it out, I was surprised at how high the strings were off the board at the nut. I just didn't think to check it myself.
I checked my other basses and their nut grooves are all much lower than my Ric. So here's hoping he's able to lower things with this minor fix. i should be able to pick it up today!
I checked my other basses and their nut grooves are all much lower than my Ric. So here's hoping he's able to lower things with this minor fix. i should be able to pick it up today!