12-string amp shopping ... Vox

[steverok]

I took my 360-12 to Sam Ash today, to try it with some tube amps. I'm looking for a great pop jingle jangle chiming sound, you know ? I currently own a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe (HRD). In the store, I did not hear much difference between the Fender Deluxe Reverb and the HRD - they sounded the same to me, but I do want to go back and try it again. I plugged into a Peavey Valve King - horrible. Then I tried it in one of those Vox AC30 custom classic reissues. On the first channel, the sound was muffly and under water, then I hit this bright switch - wow, there it is ! Suddenly I was greeted with a strong and very jingly sound that I had never heard before. But why do I need to switch it to bright to hear what it can do ? Is bright really what everyone uses, and flipping the switch goes into "muffly" mode ? I attested this to simpy being a British thing, and moved on. I believe channel 2 was very good and more, but I didn't really play with it enough. I also tried the version with the blue speakers (for $600 more), and heard no improvement. They also have this new AC50 which had a really excellent drive channel, but the clean channel didn't seem as good as the AC30 - it didn't have the bright switch, the magic switch ! I may pull the trigger on the AC30, but I need to play it some more. It is awfully large and heavy for my needs, and I may not even need that second channel. Is anyone familar with the AC15 ? How much does it weigh ? I notice it doesn't have the bright switch. I would love the AC30 in a smaller package, but I'm not sure that it exists. Any help or experience to share would be appreciated !

Steve-O

[chefothefuture]

I have one of the early AC30CCs. A fairly good amp but the components inside are iffy.
I sorta think I should have avoided it; the Marshall made ones are better than the Chinese
ones....
But that's an opinion....

[jcreasy]

I've settled on a Mesa Heartbreaker. Interesting about Vox and kinda sad. Why can't musical instrument manufacturers make a consistent product and decline to sell out or ship their work to Asia or Mexico...

If I could only find a guitar manufacturer that has never done that. You know? Some company that insists on making its guitars in the USA, has consistent, high quality control, and even has company employees participate in forums every now and then... My God, it would be beautiful!

Seriously, the Heartbreaker is pretty darn versatile and you can get some neat Brit tones out of it. Mine is a combo and I'm on the hunt for a head... They are heavy!

[steve_hershberger]

A few months ago I found a slightly used AC-30CC head and bought a new 2x12 cab to go with it (with the cheaper Wharfdale speakers). It sounds absolutely great with any/all of my guitars. This stuff is recent construction and it seems that improvements were made after the initial failures - anyway, the insides look robust enough for me. And I don't really care where it was made, just so long as the thing works to my satisfaction. That's just the way things are these days - you know, where was your TV (or anything else) made? and all that...

Anyway, I really wanted a combo model but there's no way I could lug around a 70+ lb. amp, so I opted for the head/cab. Each piece is in the 45 lb. range (the same as my Fender Hot Rod Deluxe) so it's not too bad to handle.

As for the tone, it's pretty easy to dial in once you learn how to coordinate things - it's way different than our Fenders for sure. I play mine with the normal and top boost channels mixed all the time. No need for that bright switch at all. Just takes a while to get the tone you're looking for, but when you do get it you'll have Vox tone to the max!

Some things I might change eventually: Might get some Celestion Blues or Golds, or maybe some Emi Red Fangs, but a speaker change isn't really necessary at this point. Want to use what I've got for a while first and reevaluate it later. I'll probably change the power and rectifier tubes first. Mine came with EH power tubes (they're OK for now) and a Sovtek GZ-37 and I've read that that's the only weak point so I'm replacing that with a Mullard the next time I open it up. Other than that, I'm loving this amp as it is.

You asked about the AC-15CC... Before I got my amp, I tried the 15 out for about an hour one day. Didn't like it at first, but really liked it after I dialed it in. Ultimately figured it wasn't loud enough (in clean headroom) for my purposes, so I went for the AC-30. The 15's are nice though. They're also heavy for what they are too, so that might be a consideration.

[jcreasy]

My point about being the place of construction was mainly a tongue in cheek reference to Rickenbacker...

However, when comes to musical instruments, I think there is certain trend that when the manufacturer either sells out, attempts to outsource, or moves off-shore, the quality and sprit of the orignal product line suffers. I won't name any names but we all know them. I think that is kinda sad sometimes.

In any event, the second part of the post brings up an interesting consideration, because my Heartbreaker weighs something like 90 to 110 pounds. It should have been named the Backbreaker.

JKC

[captsandwich]

If everybody wants bright, jangly & clean, why aren't you all buying Roland JC's? I know they aren't tube amps, but they deliver exactly what you guys are talking about. I've been playing a JC-55 for close to 20 years. I originally purchased it because it was so bright and I could lug it to gigs on the subway, with my guitar. Since I got my Tonelab, I have the best of all worlds - solid state clean, tube driven warm distortion, any effect I want.

PS: there it is in my avatar, just peeking in from the left.

[jcreasy]

Hey man,

Tell me about the distortion in the JC-120? I love that amp and played around with them 20 years ago... I thought they were great clean but I am not aware of any clip/distortion? How are you getting it? Forgive my ignorance but I've not been up close with one of these in a long time. Man, they shimmered! Fenders, Ampeg Reverb Rockets and those things are about the best sounding clean amps I've ever heard!

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

JKC

[sharkboy]

I've owned a number of JC120's. The distortion circuit is kind of bizarre. It sounds quite the opposite of natural. It is fun to play with, but I wouldn't recommend using it seriously for anything except alien-grunge-salsa-deathcore-jazz-rap- and that is kind of a narrow genre.

My view of the JC is that it is hard to get a bad clean sound, chorused or not, but distorted it isn't so good. You probably need pedals to make a good distortion sound, but I never managed to get a really good distorted sound even back in the days when I was on the pedal-a-week plan. One of the issues may be the way the speakers are made- mine just didn't convey that organic distortion feel.

One of my favorite setups employed my JC120H/4X12 cab clean and mostly chorused with the neck pickup and my Boogie MkIII (favorite tube amp at the time) with the bridge pickup. It really was a nice combo. I could leave the selector in the middle position and keep the articulate cleans and switch the distortion on the Boogie. I like my THD Flexi better than the Boogie, and now I'm using a Matchless DC30 clone (somewhat like a Vox AC30/4) from Ceriatone where the JC used to be. There are a lot of better and some worse things about this setup. I have had some nice moments with a Motion Sound true rotary speaker amp running clean.

[mp_me]

I was trying out a Jazzmaster last week....I chose what I thought might be the best amp in the store...and I was right.
You must try the Blond handwired AC15......what an amp.
Sparkle on the clean dirty on the distortion.
WAY LOUD.

[jingle_jangle]

+1 on the handwired AC-15 in blonde. But hold onto your wallet...

[steverok]

Well, I bought a Vox AC30 custom classic on Friday, and tried it for a day, and ended up returning it. It did offer a pristine jingle sound with my 360-12VP, but that was the only decent 12-string sound I could seem to get. Also, it was extremely noisy with my pedals in front of it, and less noisy with them in the effects loop. My SG did sound really great through that thing. I recorded the 12-string with two mic's before returning it. I ended up buying the Vox Tone Lab LE, and after a few hours, I was able to dial in a recorded sound that was pretty darn close to the real thing, with no pedals, just the Vox box, and less noise ! I also tried it through my PA, and it produced a nice sparkly jangle, even in mono ! Now, I can take it to the open mic and treat the people to some Rickenbacker jangle. I'm sure I'll be the first to bring a Ric-12 to my open mic. I also got a pretty good Tom Petty "The Waiting" sound on the bridge pick-up. I know it's not the same as the real thing - you don't get that visceral sensation of sitting in front of two amplifier speakers, powered by real tubes, but owning that beast is quite a commitment. I could barely get it in and out of my car by myself. I'll be checking it out with my other guitars shortly. If anyone is interested in recording or solo performing with a Ric-12, I strongly recommend checking out the Vox Tone Lab SE. Guitar Center offers a free carrying case rebate if you order online.

[captsandwich]

Hey man,

Tell me about the distortion in the JC-120? I love that amp and played around with them 20 years ago... I thought they were great clean but I am not aware of any clip/distortion? How are you getting it? Forgive my ignorance but I've not been up close with one of these in a long time. Man, they shimmered! Fenders, Ampeg Reverb Rockets and those things are about the best sounding clean amps I've ever heard!

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

The distortion on the JC is horrible. I also found that my amp lost volume if I switched from clean to the onboard distortion. I have always used pedals for distortion, everything from an ancient MXR Micro-Distortion to a Boss Metal Zone. I currently use a Vox Tonelab SE for all my effects. I don't even use the chorus on the JC anymore, I just set it clean & bright and rely on the Tonelab.

[jcreasy]

Thanks for the feedback... I've kinda gotten away from pedals. I plug straight into the Heartbreaker and channel switch. Actually, the Heartbreaker is opposite, I am happier with the distorted/clipping sounds than I am with the cleans. Although the cleans do sound very good, they are nothing like a Fender. My buddy has a DC V and it sounds great clean... Another good one is an Ampeg Reverb Rocket. Great cleans but distortion is sucky.

Maybe I'll check out the Tone Lab.

JKC

[jingle_jangle]

Another good one is an Ampeg Reverb Rocket. Great cleans but distortion is sucky.

Maybe I'll check out the Tone Lab.

JKC

The Ampeg is a great clean amp, favored throughout the '60s by Rust Belt VFW Hall accordion players!

The Tone Lab LE (now available on Ebay in the $270.00 range) is a super-bargain.

[jcreasy]

You crack me up. It actually has an accordian input channel. I'll check out the Tone Lab.