Buying my first Rickenbacker

[janalex]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and I need some advice to help me choose the perfect 12 string Ric for my applications. I play in a band that is heavily influenced by vintage sounds. Accordingly, I play a 1952 LP Conversion through a vintage Marshall plexi. Now, I am looking for an electric 12 string to accompany several of our originals and I have always loved the 12 string Ric sound. I have had my fair share of modern production LP's and Strat's which almost all wound up being sold in favor of vintage pieces. You can say that as a result I've lost faith in the American guitar companies of today. Therefore I am approaching my 12 string search with caution and I don't want to make the mistake of buying anything less than an oustanding guitar that is both playable and able to nail the vintage Ric sound.
This brings me to my questions. Which periods of Rickenbacker are known for their superior build quality and tone? Are the 330/12 and the 360/12 both equally great 12 strings guitars? I've seen that the late 60's 12 strings are going for around $5. This is a bit steep for me however if it's the only way to go with Rics then I will save up and wait. Do other options exist such as buying modern wood and replacing the electronics? Does the build quality and choice of wood today differ from the 60/70's?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Jan

[jps]

Welcome Jan!

You will find no bad periods with RIC as opposed to the usual manufacturers. Differences will be in things like type of pickups, neck thickness, etc., not "this period is better than..."

If you can find a '60s Rick for around $5 snatch it up real fast!

[sloop_john_b]

Welcome Jan!

Rickenbacker is unique in that it has not had a lean period, whereas both Fender (mid-late 70's) and Gibson (late 60's-late 70's) have. A Rickenbacker from any era will be of excellent build quality - that includes today.

The 330/12 and 360/12 are both excellent guitars - the differences in both boil down to the "deluxe" features of the 360/12, whereas the 330/12 is the more stripped down model. If you buy a new one of either, they'll come equipped with Higain pickups; while these are excellent pickups, they're not the preferred type for nailing the vintage Beatles/Byrds tone. For that sound, you'll need to go with the vintage reissue toaster pickups, which will nail it for you!

Also, keep in mind that those classic recordings used a Rick 12 in conjunction with tube compression. I find a compressor a necessary part of "that sound". Many here, including myself, like the Janglebox. http://www.janglebox.com/

Most vintage Ricks are excellent guitars, but they're not a necessity to nail the sound you want. Like I said, the combination of vintage reissue toaster pickups and compression will get you where you want to be.

[ric330]

I have to tell you Jan, that as somebody who works on guitars I would say that the build quality today as so far as Rickenbacker is concerned, is absolutey phenominal. They've kept their production in the US and continue to be backlogged and for good reason.

There are others here with more experience in actual Guitar luthurie than me who fix, repair, and restore Rickenbackers who also own and play newer Rickenbacker guitars.
You can always mod a new Rick to have that older appearance but the Tone is Still Rickenbacker. One thing to consider is neck width at the nut. On the 660 you'll get 1 3/4"
which is a big deal if you need the extra room down at the Nut. Some of the Reissues are real nice like the Roger Mcguinn 370/12, or the Tom Petty 660-12TP
but any of the newer Ricks are fine guitars.

As far as the vintage Ricks, there seems to be real collectability amoung the 60's Ricks but here again there have been fabulous Ricks thoughout the years and every guitar should be judged on its' own merit anyway. If you hang around here there are plenty of Ricks going up for sale in addition to some trading. We also have lots of forums with Experts like Paul Wilczynski who have built some of the finest Ricks out there. There is a section of Pickups and lots of post having to do with tweeks and mods to get the most out of your Rickenbacker.

I would certainly find out what you are more comfortable on (with a 12 string) - a standard neck width at the Nut or the wider 1 3/4 " at the nut, to better define your search as this can greatly reduce the guitars you will consider whether you choose to buy a Vintage Rick or one of the late models.

The best advice is to start trying as many Ricks as you can because you may find one from say 1989 or a 2006 for instance that just does it for you rather than a Vintage model. As John was saying you can get a set of toaster tops for any given Rick you find that just feels right and give it that great vintage sound and vibe.
As we sometimes say around here as so far as the Ricks we own ...They are all vintage Ricks and my Go To just happens to be Vintage 2007.

Best of luck with your search.

[Scastles]

Welcome, Jan. I can only vouch for most of what the others have said. And I've never read or heard anyone express, " My new Rick just doesn't sound as good as my old one."
Yeah, you may have to wait, but I think you'll be able to find the Rick you want, with the vintage sound you desire, and I don' think you'll have to spend 5k to do it. Good luck!

[janalex]

Thanks for all the wonderful in depth answers. I'm relieved that I don't have to wait forever for a vintage piece to turn up. However, I know that I will want that vintage Toaster pickups. Which models from which years came factory stock with the Toaster pickups?

[sloop_john_b]

Thanks for all the wonderful in depth answers. I'm relieved that I don't have to wait forever for a vintage piece to turn up. However, I know that I will want that vintage Toaster pickups. Which models from which years came factory stock with the Toaster pickups?

There are 330/12's and 360/12's that were ordered from the factory with them - in fact, this option was just recently discontinued.

Alternately, you could look for a 360/12v64 or a 360/12c63, both replicas of the "George Harrison" model (the latter being closer to the original, though the v64 is an excellent guitar as well). There are also a few Limited Edition signature models that came with toasters, including the 360/12 Carl Wilson and the 370/12 Roger McGuinn.

From the factory, you could still order a 360/12c63 or a 381/12v69, both of which will come with toasters. The wait will likely be very long for either.

[ric330]

Here's beautiful JG at Fullers with toaster top pickups, vintage hardware, and Bound front and back - 12 string...

http://www.fullersguitar.com/component/ ... Itemid,27/

[Scastles]

The discontinued V series and the currently produced C series 360's, John mentioned, are a little easier to obtain. V series 12's often come up on eBay or at dealers. The 381, while excellent, runs quite a bit more price wise.

[JakeK]

Here's beautiful JG at Fullers with toaster top pickups, vintage hardware, and Bound front and back - 12 string...

http://www.fullersguitar.com/component/ ... Itemid,27/

Kevin, you posted the same one I posted in the wanted section! Funny how things work out?

Anywho, my personal favorite Ric 12 is the 660/12. The Tom Petty edition of that guitar is great, especially if you're a Petty fan (like me!). The 660/12 has a nice small body and wider neck. It also has an adjustable 12-saddle bridge, so you can get the perfect intonation. I'm also a fan (but never owned) the 360/12C63/V64 and the 360/12CW. They are much better (even though I never played them to know) than the standard 360/12, in my opinion, as the two vintage reissues have 21 frets and toaster pickups.

So, if you can get over $2k, look for a 360/12C63/V64, a 360/12CW or a 660/12(TP).

Have fun Ric hunting!

[sloop_john_b]

Ah yes, i totally forgot the one I actually own! Duhhhh.

The 660/12 is my favorite Rick 12 as well, thanks to the slightly wider neck and solid body. IMO, brighter is better when it comes to Rick 12's and the solid maple body makes this the brightest sounding of them all. It also comes with toasters from the factory.

I should also mention that if you decide to look for a use Rick 12, most anything made before 2000 will have the "hot" toasters, which are good pickups but IMO not so close to the vintage sound. In 2000, RIC re-designed the toaster to vintage specs - these are the so-called "scatterwound" toasters and measure in at 7.4k ohms.

[ric330]

Jake that is a great looking guitar:

[ric330]

Here's real nice Vintage reissue 12 string:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rickenbacker-360-12 ... dZViewItem

[JakeK]

That one had scatterwound 7.5 ohms in them, too. It's gone now, though.

[ric330]

That was quick, the good ones don't last long that's for sure...