The Rising Tide

[Scastles]

This subject has been broached and debated many times in recent months. I am astounded at the recent prices for certain Rick signature models and V series models. Not to mention certain former COY models. I'm not just talking about asking prices, but what some models are actually selling for. Let me say, I have no problem with it. It just appears to me many older models have gone through a leap frog pricing process. Again, I think in many ways Ricks have always been under-priced. I also understand much of this has to do with the recent price increases, but I do have questions.
How much are these sales affecting possible new sales, since new orders are behind and buyers can't wait? Has the curve gone too high on some older models, too quickly?
I might be over-fishing here, but I'm curious as to what others think.

[jingle_jangle]

[Scastles]

Knew when I wrote the last senctence, I was leaving myself open.

As with many topics on the Forum, some are best not brought up.

It won't happen again.

[jingle_jangle]

Hey, Stan...See the wink? I think, as will others, that this is a valid topic for discussion, so don't vacate yet.

[Scastles]

Maybe it's vaild, Paul. It also may be that none of us fully grasp the recent trend on what is happening with prices on 'used' Ricks to answer confidently. My questions could very well be premature, from the standpoint of how pricing has changed so signficantly in such a marginal period of time.

It also could be that you and I are the only ones participating with this topic. But at least, you posted

[johnallg]

Could it also be partly all the desirable Fenders and Gibsons have been purchased and investors are looking for/to the next "bubble" to be Ricks? All the vintage instrument selling sights have been hogging the eBay auctions and snapping up both bargains and rare Ricks only to have them back on the 'bay or their site at much higher prices.

Comments?

[beatlefreak]

I believe the backlog situation at RIC has gone on for so long (and gotten worse as time goes on), that it's driving up the prices of new and used Ricks alike. There are more people than ever scrambling to get Rickenbackers, and the supply just isn't getting any better. People selling Ricks aren't making deals on them, because if one person won't pay a higher price for them, someone else will.

[jimk]

My thought is that I think I'll just sit back, take a few deep breaths, and watch and observe. No use getting my knickers all in a wad, because there's nothing I can do about the situation anyway. And, at the risk of sounding too self-satisfied, I'm glad I got my order in and my money down for my Rick when I did.

I might get a bad attack of RAS someday. No use worrying about that now, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. Who knows? It could happen that I'll have a big download hit and I'll be able to buy any Rickenbacker I want. Who knows? Qué será, será, ¿verdad?

JimK

[jingle_jangle]

I think the only Ricks directly affected by the recent price increase and continual factory backlog, are those of recent vintage.

Nobody's going to say, "I think I'll buy a $5000 Ebay vintage Ricks, since it's a 12-month wait for a new $2000 one".

And no one's going to think, "gee, they're a few hundred more than last year, I think I'll buy an $8000 Capri."

So, we'll see the flippers and those with the Ricks that cost around $1K last year, getting a bit more action.

The vintage Rick market has been waiting for its day in the sun...I think it's still ramping up.

[johnallg]

Jim, just wait until you get that spankin' new Rick in your grubby little mitts, then remember the RRF motto, "one is not enough."

[collin]

Personally, I think the price situation is sad. Mostly because I think a lot of demand is out there for used rics, and the price is being driven up, even on modern basic models (330/360/600 series/basses), and I think that the backlog at RIC is a big part of it.

Of course, I love Ric, we all do (otherwise we wouldn't be here!), but a wait period of up to THREE YEARS+ is absolutely unreasonable in any situation. It's appalling. I'm surprised that customers are still willing to lay down the money and wait that long..

I'm assuming a great deal of these people either:

a) order a guitar, get fed up waiting, and start digging into the used market while they are waiting for their new Ric

or

b) going straight for a Used Ric because they (rightfully) feel that a wait period of 1-3 years is unacceptable, especially with the recent price increases.

As far as overall prices on Rics...I don't think they are (or until recently were) underpriced OR overpriced. The price spectrum on Rics is very small, when compared to Fender/Gibson etc...

A new ric is priced at $2999 list, used starting at say..$1200+, and even the most rare or expensive Vintage Rics are what...$30,000 tops (like a '64 Harrison type 360, a Mint Lightshow, or RM1993).
In the vintage guitar market, that's not a huge difference.

Fender has rubbish korean squiers starting at $75, to US standards ($1200) to Custom shop models to Rare Vintage stuff (mint custom color strats, Broadcasters etc...up to like $200,000).

Gibson has their cheap Epiphone line, followed by affordable Gibsons (SG's), then standard LP's at like $2000+, then you have your 1959 Les Paul Bursts going for $500,000

So, Ric's don't have more affordable lower market models (which I like), and their vintage models are bringing in a lot of money, but not STUPID money (like the Burst!).

Still, I'd like prices to go back to what they were even just two years ago..right now it's ridiculous.

Cheers,
-Collin

[jingle_jangle]

Well, Collin, hang on, because prices are not going down again. And the factory is doing everything they can to cut down the backlog.

[grazioso]

i don't see it coming back down without factory delivering it under couple months and usa going down the tubes with economy. i thought i overpaid couple years back for 91 360v64/12 but it seems now like i got a deal.... plus everybody has their favourite year and that is worth couple extra $100 if you people know what i mean. than you have signature ric prices and again it is the way to get good ric very close to sixties instrument (in most cases) for 1/2 the price and with no issues.

than there is a problem of 4005 and similars. it is not coming back and everyone knows now so they go for those prices.

it sure is sad that it is getting expensive but it is luxury item. look for how much old 70's 80's made in japan guitars go for - sure some of them are great but really not all of them are *that* great. bob sold 610/12fg for like $1400 on ebay i was watching it and i am bit sorry i didn't go for it harder since it was my prefared year for rics. so was it too much? i don't know. i kinda wish 610610/12 was brought back to the line but than i am not big fan of current neck profiles so i wouldn't buy it new either.

[arbiter]

I was hoping to get a 660 for college graduation, but the backlog and price increase have made that pretty much impossible. Although some people may not feel like the increase is a big deal, for some it truly is. I always told people they should get a Ric, its better crafted and cheaper than a gibson. Now that they're around the same price and theres a backlog that argument pretty much goes out the window.

[paologregorio]

I bought my last two used Ricks because RIC doesn't make the WB model anymore. I might buy a new 330, 381, or possibly even a 360/12 C63 if the finish color range expands a bit in the next couple of years, or if there's a COY that I find quite enticing. Other than that, I probably won't buy anything new, other than perhaps a JG 4003 in the next couple of years.

Prices could change again in the consumer's favor if the dollar gets stronger(Monetary policy would have to change for this to happen). Some of the price increase is due to the plummet in the value of the dollar. the value of the U.S. dollar has grown quite pitiful over the last year or so.

The backlog should shrink over time as RIC's policies and practices designed to reduce the backlog take effect. I don't think it needs to go down to two months to keep RIC customers happy. People generally have an idea of the wait they should anticipate when ordering a Rickenbacker. Even at Fender there can be a four month wait for a special order item: I ordered a Surf Green U.S. RI `57 Fender Stratocaster and had to wait four months for my guitar. Fender makes their guitars in batches and I had to wait until there were enough orders for the factory to do a batch of surf green guitars. I'm not sure how many people have seen what goes into building a Rickenbacker, but Rick guitars and basses are a true work of art, and an amazing peice of construction. It is truly amazing what RIC does on the scale it does, especially given the anti business state of California in which it operates. The quality and detail of Rick guitars is quite involved and intense. I am impressed with what RIC does.