Restoring the electronics in a 1964 Rose Morris Model 1998

[drgork]

I recently acquired a 1964 RM 1998 with vibrato. Unfortunately, someone removed all the original capacitors, volume pots and tone pots, except the mixer pot. I am trying to track down all the original parts. One thing I can't find much information on is the .0047 uF capacitor. Does anyone know what the original brand was? I have seen photos of original wiring harnesses and you can see a "sea foam" green cap under the Ajax Blue mold caps. Photos of the Sangamo type 33 caps and the Cornell Dubilier Greenies just don't seem to be exactly right. They are the only green caps I have seen that look even close.

Any help with the original caps and sources for old capacitors, pots, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Danny

[danm]

Hi Danny,
This is something I did to my 1997 reissue. I can't help you with the brand of bleed cap (I've asked that before too) but the tone caps are "Blue Molded" .047 and were used in many a Fender Blackface amplifier. I've never found NOS ones, but good used ones can be had from a lot of people who overhaul amps. Aside from the caps, the tone pots would be 500k and the volume would be 250. Making the pot value change in my reissue along with unwinding the pickups made my guitar nearly tonally identical to my '67.

The work will be worth it. Post some pics too while you're at it.

Good luck!

[wints]

Welcome Danny,

I am sure some here might come up with some spare parts. The old .0047 are a tough call, but I'll take a look in my old box to see if I have anything.

[JakeK]

Welcome Danny. What a steal of a guitar you got! I'm not much of an expert on this sort of thing, but I think our own Paul W. (Jingle_Jangle) MIGHT be able to help you out.

[drgork]

I appreciate the replies. If possible, I really want to do this guitar right. When I received the guitar, someone had rewired it badly with mustard colored Astron Caps and new CTS pots. Fortunately, the body and pickguard were not drilled or modified. I'm trying to be patient and take my time finding the right parts.

Danny

[rick_ovic]

Danny, I don't profess to be any kind of expert "under the hood" of my vintage Rickenbackers, but the least I can do is provide you with some close up photos of the wiring inside my 1965 RM 1998, which might help in the restoration of yours.

To the best of my knowledge it's all original:-

[rick_ovic]

Here are a couple more. I can't see any brand name on the sea green cap.....

[drgork]

These photos are fantastic! Thanks for going to the trouble. My guitar externally is identical to yours. Internally, unfortunately not. I haven't given up yet on finding the correct parts.

Thanks again!
Danny

[frickengruvin]

Danny: I am currently restoring a '66 365, and part of this restoration was locating ALL vintage hardware and electronics for the instrument. I finally hit gold with a company called Stevie's Guitars. Stephen F De Franco [[email protected]] is the owner and fellow RIC enthusiast.

Don't get me wrong this forum is a great resource, but when it comes to sharing info about getting any vintage parts, it is a failure....no one seems to want to help-especially the folks that actually refurbish these vintage instruments and have contacts to who may have availability of these hard to find parts.

I am not a master luthier like some of the folks that lurk and post here, but at least I will give out pertinent, usable info on VINTAGE parts availability when I have it.......

Here are some people you can contact to try to get actual wiring info on your instrument. They have all worked with Rickenbacker at some point in time, are all awesome luthiers and plethoras of knowledge. This is the order I would try to contact them:

Mark Arnquist:[email protected]
Dale Fortune:[email protected]
Paul W. Whom you have already been directed to and frequents the forum often.

These guys are busy!!! Mark Arnquist is awesome at answering his emails on a timely basis!

PM me if I can help in any other way. Good luck in your search for your parts!

[jingle_jangle]

Danny: I am currently restoring a '66 365, and part of this restoration was locating ALL vintage hardware and electronics for the instrument. I finally hit gold with a company called Stevie's Guitars. Stephen F De Franco [[email protected]] is the owner and fellow RIC enthusiast.

Don't get me wrong this forum is a great resource, but when it comes to sharing info about getting any vintage parts, it is a failure....no one seems to want to help-especially the folks that actually refurbish these vintage instruments and have contacts to who may have availability of these hard to find parts.

I am not a master luthier like some of the folks that lurk and post here, but at least I will give out pertinent, usable info on VINTAGE parts availability when I have it.......

Here are some people you can contact to try to get actual wiring info on your instrument. They have all worked with Rickenbacker at some point in time, are all awesome luthiers and plethoras of knowledge. This is the order I would try to contact them:

Mark Arnquist:[email protected]
Accurate: Dale Fortune:[email protected]
Paul W. Whom you have already been directed to and frequents the forum often.

These guys are busy!!! Mark Arnquist is awesome at answering his emails on a timely basis!

PM me if I can help in any other way. Good luck in your search for your parts!

Mark, thanks for the recommendation nd kind comments, but I have a couple of points to raise:

Calling this place a "failure" in any way, reflects a negative viewpoint that may well be due to an ongoing frustration with the availability of knowledge on your specific area of interest. With few exceptions, we share that frustration. The hobby is just not at that place yet of "general knowledge" about guitars made 42 and more years ago.

I believe that for every active poster on this forum, there are a dozen "lurkers", if not more. "Lurkers" are, by definition, not inclined to participate, though they may have the specific knowledge we all seek on older Ricks. I know for a fact that there are a couple of dozen, hard-core Rick collectors who keep the euphemistic "low profile", but who could in a split-second, answer any question on these oldies with authority and photos of guitars from their own current or past collections. They don't participate, though we welcome them as part of the non-verbal core of this hobby.

Accurate:

Dale and Mark have both worked at Rickenbacker in the past. All three of us are busy; you've got that right!

Inaccurate: I have not worked at RIC. My own background is, in fact, not in guitars but in other areas, at least until December of 2004 when I began to haunt these pages on a daily basis, and May of 2005, when I restored my first Rick, a '67 335 for Dave Coyle of Chicago. I got very few pics of this resto and none of the electronics, which as I recall were original. Mea Culpa.

Furthermore, my own knowledge of vintage parts (especially electronic parts) is heavily dependent upon contacts I have made and information I glean from this very forum, and is far from encyclopedic, so, until I become versed in this area, people who contact me on the topic of vintage Rick electronics and components will be directed elsewhere if I can't help them. I do at any time, however, have a number of vintage Ricks belonging to customers and in for restoration, which have electronics intact, currently going back to '58. Do I have any '66 365s? Nope. Have I restored any '66s? Yes--a 325. That's it in that category. Have I ever done a Rose-Morris? Nope. So, I keep my mouth shut on this stuff and learn from others, and you're right--there's precious little out there.

But this Forum is not "a failure"--it's still in process, and for the short time of its existence, it's an amazing resource as well as a place of camaraderie. So, stick around and learn with the rest of us.

[frickengruvin]

Thanks Paul! I truly appreciate the articulate manner (with humor at times) in which you post.

[Inaccurate: I have not worked at RIC./quote]

I thought I read here that you are being commissioned to build acoustic guitars by Ric. If I am incorrect in that, I apologize, but will not withdraw my statement referring to your prowess at building, and the knowledge you have shared. (Thanks for that too!)

I have actually been a member of this forum for years longer but had to "rejoin" when the forum was updated....I don't post an aweful lot, but lurk quite a bit....

I guess there is some frustration on my part with regards to vintage parts acquisition (tho' I am a determined soul, and don't easily give up). However, that being said, with so much useful information on this board, maybe there should be a "links" sticky or attachment that board members can utilize for contacting for vintage parts. It seems to me that it would serve three purposes:
!. Serve as a contact in order to fill a request for vintage parts necessary to complete a restoration.
2. Involve yet another knowledgeable member in our Ric community to help disspell some of the shadows that hang over these great instruments, while also empowering their business.
3. Truly help those individuals who are legitimately trying to restore a vintage instrument, and don't initially have the necessary contacts available to do so, luthiers and novices alike.

As always thanks for your help and input.

[jingle_jangle]

[Inaccurate: I have not worked at RIC./quote]

I thought I read here that you are being commissioned to build acoustic guitars by Ric. If I am incorrect in that, I apologize, but will not withdraw my statement referring to your prowess at building, and the knowledge you have shared. (Thanks for that too!)

This is true, although the agreement is a license, not a commission. (Financial arrangements and liability are different for the two categories, which is why I'm clarifying). When I say that I have not worked at RIC, I'm referring to actual employment; I've not had the experience of working at the factory, learning "the RIC way", so my knowledge, such as it is, is by osmosis and therefore has holes in it that I work to fill in.

The word "prowess" makes my wife chuckle...

[wints]

The basic problem with vintage Ric parts, especially the 50/60's stuff, is that there is very little of it.

Compared to Fender parts, they are extremely hard to come by, and as a result are expensive. When people get them, they tend to keep them for a future project, because they know they won't be able to source another one in all probability.

It took me over two years, and a lot of searching, to find a short pole toaster that was exactly period correct.

The best bet for pots is a year correct lap steel. The caps are harder to source, and that pretty little turquoise thing is extremely hard to find.

This forum may not be perfect for finding vintage parts, but you won't anywhere else where members are prepared to go out of their way to help another Ric owner.

The last thing it is, is a failure...

[pacealot]

Note on the .0047 cap - perusing pics of '60s guitars, it seems they occasionally used Ajax blue molded .0047 caps for the cut cap as well (maybe when they ran out of turquoise ones?). As I couldn't find a turquoise one myself either, I picked up an Ajax on eBay. Maybe not exactly perfect, but at least somewhat period-accurate (as far as that goes!). The seller (redroadster) still has a couple. Caveat: looks like they came out of a Fender amp, but mine worked just fine.