How to detune Hofner bass for authenticity

philco · Post by **philco** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 4:33 pm

I own a Peterson VS-1 tuner and do my own bass and guitar setups. An acquaintance wants me to detune his Hofner Beatle bass to where it will intonate just like Paul McCartney's Hofner bass before he had it fixed by the Mandolin Brothers in New York. He claims a perfectly intonated Beatle Bass is not authentic for doing Beatle covers. I agreed to do it if he would get me the exact tuning specs. Otherwise, he will probably always want to keep changing it a bit to suit his mood. Paul McCartney admitted that the intonation was sharp, but does anybody know how sharp? I need to know action height and how many cents sharp at various notes. My friend is a bit weird in his tastes sometimes, but I hate to tell him "no can do".

Is the detuned Hofner bass thing a present fad in Beatle cover bands or something? If nothing else, I will take a SWAG and act like I know what I am doing. Does anybody here have a SWAG they would like to offer? Are there any specific tracks on the old Beatle records I could listen to in order to get a ballpark approximation? My friend's stereo is ****, so I need to know from somebody who has a turntable with perfect pitch control. We both have all the old LP's, so we never bought the CD's. Otherwise, I will have to set it to the pitch of my turntable, which has no pitch control to zero it out. But it would be easier with tuning meter settings to go by.

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:50 am

hey, he sounds out of tune/intonation on Abbey Road, which I believe was mostly done on his Ric. I tend to go along with a few other in this forum that they (The Beatles) didn't rush to their luthier every week.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 3:10 pm

Try "Don't Let me Down" Phil he plays a lot of sharp high notes and it sounds like his Hofner, and the harder he plays the more sharp it sounds. Also a lot of the "Let it Be" album is Hofner and sharp but I assume this was after the Mandolin Bros.? I have heard everything now, haha!
His high notes often sounded sharp and he bent a lot of notes like a guitar player, that could also have something to do with it, and it is easy to bend notes and play sharp on a short scale bass especially if you pluck hard, listen to Jack Bruce whom I love. I also personally think that his action was way high like a lot of other 60's bass players which would make a bass play sharp, and he also used those big rotosound nylon strings sometimes which will also make a bass sound sharp and are not very heavy even though they look like it. I owned a Hofner way back for a little while, they play and feel like a toy when you are used to a long scale bass. Even a Gibson EB series short scale bass is a lot more solid feeling, I'm not trying to denigrate Hofners, I'd like another one actually but that was my impression after playing my P bass for several years when I was a kid.
I think it was a combination of things, most of all how he played. I can get that sharp sound up high like McCartney just by bending the notes like a guitar player.

sneakers · Post by **sneakers** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:32 am

It will be hard to duplicate that perfectly. The neck on Paul's Hofner was bowed for one thing. The bridge placement was the key issue for him. If you look at the early photographs the bridge is perfectly straight. In newer photos the bridge is cocked to compensate for the string guage intonation.

For starters, I'd play with the bridge, move it slightly toward the fingerboard and see if that works. Set the action high so that the intonation varies with the amount of attack on the strings, both finger pressure against the fingerboard and pick pull (or push).

philco · Post by **philco** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:45 am

I'll bet it is the combination of a misplaced bridge and high action due to a bowed neck. Paul said it was going sharp by the 3rd fret on the E string, so it sounds like overly high action there due to a bowed neck. That is good reasoning to get the "detuned Hofner" idea abandoned, as putting a big bow in a neck is not advisable and might be something that wouldn't undo easily. Paul got it fixed, so it's something he never really wanted anyway. According to the interview, he admits to NOT being the type of guy you get gear information from. The reason he bought the Hofner in the first place was becasue that is what was available at the price he could afford. Actually, I think the band pooled their money and bought it because they were in dire need of a new bass. They had to go to several Hamburg shops before they were even able to find that one. Buying a bass back then was NOT like today. If Bass Central or The Bass Centre had existed back then, Paul would probably have had a career with something besides a Hofner.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:06 pm

He also liked it's light weight though and has said he couldn't afford anything like a fender back then. which I'm sure were probably available in Hamburg or at least England.
But I still think a big part of it is the way he played, he has always had that type of sound, even with Wings he had that sort of tone warble you get when you play really hard. When you first pluck the string it goes sharp and then settles down. that is a natural phenomenom that happens on all stringed instruments by the way, it was just accentuated by playing hard, his high action, bridge placed wrongly, and bowed neck. haha! A few problems I would have to say.

ojobob2 · Post by **ojobob2** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:23 pm

yeah i think a big part of it was the way he played - all three of my basses (2 Ricks and a precision) are intonated as perfect as i can get them and when playing with the band notes high up on the E for example always go sharp cos im attacking far harder than i think i am.

But actually thats kinda good, as an E played on the 7th fret A string always sounds pretty different to the same note on the 12th fret E string - more of a drone to it higher up the string

philco · Post by **philco** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:21 pm

With a strobe tuner like a VS-1 you can tune to the attack OR decay, Owen. It's a good idea for at least one band member to buy something at least as good as a Peterson VS-1 and tune everybody's instruments the same. Dan Erlewine advises tuning to the attack as you can always bend a note sharp after the attack if you hold it for any length of time. Actually, I don't notice this effect as much on bass as I do on guitar. A funny thing is that almost every bass I ever got was sharp on most or all strings when I checked the original factory setup. The cheap Korg GA-30 types that most people use are too slow response to tune to the attack, so if you use one of those you are tuned to the decay (dwell) of the note. You will always be sharp when playing hard if you use those slow cheap tuners, unless you compensate. Not too bad a thing as long as everybody is tuned the same.

Anyway, this Hofner enquiry has all been in vain as the guy fell in love with my new OLP SB4 and is going to sell the Hofner to buy one and a SansAmp PSA-1. He liked the SB4 through my SansAmp RBI but hated the knob twiddling for each different amp emulation. The PSA-1 is basically the same with up to 100 stored presets you can instantly recall, so it fits better for live gig situations where your style bounces around from song to song. The SB4 sustains almost as well as my 4004L and has a really wide tonal range. The tailpiece design is similar looking and it has a maple cap to sit on. The neck joint is really tight, and the neck has a slim J-bass feel to it. It is lighter than a 4004, so even a Hofner owner can't complain there. Some other guy was bugging him for the Hofner, and he didn't own it long enough to form a real attachment and can get out from under it without a loss. The quilted maple top on the SB4 is also better looking than the Hofner and unless you knew a real Spector has 4 control knobs instead of 3, the SB4 passes for a real Spector at a distance and uses the same EMG-SSD (Stuart Spector Design) pickups as on a Spector Performer 4. The Bass Gear Review Archives probably has some owner reviews of the OLP SB4 or Spector Performer 4. The tailpiece is actually nicer on the SB4 and much closer to the higher priced Spectors in looks. It is die cast instead of machined like on the high end Spectors, but looks and works the same. It is similar to the bridge on my 4004 bass, minus the lateral adjustment rollers. The Hofner had little appeal to me. I think they sound inferior to a solid body bass when amplified. Not nearly as comfortable as the SB4 when sitting on your leg. I find the SB4 more comfortable than my OLP MM2 Sting Ray copy as well. I guess Paul always went for the Hofner's light weight. I really wanted to hear his Rickenbacker on his latest tour video, not that Hofner. His other bass player used a Les Paul bass (ugh!) on the tour. Love his songs, but by his own admission he's not the guy you get your gear advice from. We've decided to stick to modern electric basses here!

sneakers · Post by **sneakers** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:27 am

"His other bass player used a Les Paul bass (ugh!) on the tour."

I believe Brian Ray played a Guild bass during the last tour.

squirebass · Post by **squirebass** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:31 am

Read his comments from the old Guitar Player interview in which he talks about moving the bridge around so that it would be "intonated" at a certain part of the neck! I don't remember all the details but I believe you'll find some of the info you need....

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:43 am

Philco,

do you get a commission from OLP?

My '67 Hofner plays pretty much in tune, which actually surprises me. It still sounds early Beatle-y regardless.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:01 pm

Commission? the're going to come out with a limited edition Philco bass next year! haha!

philco · Post by **philco** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 3:11 pm

The OLP basses are incredible for the chump change they cost. Stuart Spector would not license his bass design to somebody that was going to trash his image. The idea is to get you wanting a real Spector by baiting you with a much cheaper copy that plays well. It seems "ole Stuart" has snagged me because I'm monitoring Spector basses on eBay now. Somebody got a BEAUTIFUL neck-thru Czech built Spector on eBay the other day for $612. That's with case, and the retail was around $2000, and it looked near mint condition. Another person got a neck-thru Spector with no case for $300. These guys have made me think I almost paid TOO MUCH at $252 delivered for a chinese copy.

You just can't get deals like that on Rickenbackers, can you? Like I said, it's a really good complementary bass for a Rickenbacker owner because it covers different sonic terrortory.

philco · Post by **philco** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 5:00 pm

P.S. I lucked out and got my own Spector ReBop 4 in mint condition on a No Reserve auction on eBay. It has the 18V Aguilar preamp as well. I wanted the lighter weight alder bodied bolt-on with the EMG soapbar humbucker pickups over the heavier and costlier neck-thru with P&J pickups. The cost with shipping was less than 1/3 the cost of a new one, or about half the cost of a new American Fender P-bass. At prices like these, you might as well forget about the OLP and Spector Asian copies for not much less. It just takes a little patience for the right auction to show up. Now if I can only get a wireless unit, I will have radio/active bass.