Fixing Routed 1979 4001 Body

[MichaelStewart]

Hi! I am new to this group and I am thrilled to have learned so much so fast here!

Anyway, I have a specific question about my 1979 4001.

The previous owner apparantly was not so pleased with the sound of the 4001, and routed out a place between the two pickups and had a P-Bass pickup screwed into the newly routed area. Besides making it necessary (when I promptly got rid of it) to have a custom pick-guard made to cover the mess, there is now a gaping hole in the middle of my Rick that really bothers me. I also noticed that the original factory routs seemed to be a bit of "overkill" as well.

I am wondering what the plus and minus is for filling in all of the routed areas with hard wood and only re-routing that which is necessary for the pickups to snugly fit (sort of like a 4004?). Therefore, my main question really pertians to sustain and solid intonation.

I have a Brass Hipshot bridge on it and I was wondering if anyone has considered filling in the cavity underneath the Bridge with a hard wood to make better contact with the Hipshot. Has anyone experimented with this? I am not at all worried about the weight of the bass. If so, any suggestions as to what type of wood to use?

It would seem to me that the missing wood would take away some of the solid sound produced by the body of the bass acoustically, that could be passed along through the pickups - especially in reagrds to sustain.

Any thoughts here?

Thanks!

[doctorwho]

Welcome, Michael!

[VRICKY63]

Im not a luthier . I think the brass hipshot would take care of any space under it as far as tone is concerned . How does the bass sound "as is" ? If it still works/sounds good you could just leave it . I had a 77 4001 that had a lot of routing under the pickguard but it still worked well .

[doctorwho]

I should have mentioned that this thread really should be in the Vibrola section, as that's where the resident luthiers and like-talented gurus hang out.

[weemac]

I've done the "fill the big nasty hole and route for the pickup only" thing.
and also the "fix the badass hole" thing as well.
I left as much of the parent wood as I could and filled the holes with several pieces of rock maple.
I also managed to correct a neck angle issue at the same time.
I'm a guitar repair dude (I would not call myself a proper luthier)
It is a simple but fairly time consuming repair if you want it done well, as I had to make the templates as I went, and the holes had to be filled in several stages.
If you are savvy with a router and linishing machine and prepared to take the time, go for it! If you are not, take it to a good luthier...
emac.

[jingle_jangle]

You're not going to gain much in solidity, unless the hardwood fills are very tight-fitting so that a minimum of glue is used and the end result is a monolithic piece of wood, so to speak.

In order to do this properly, a very accurate job needs to be made of cleaning up the nasty routes, so that a perfectly-fitting block of hardwood can be glued into place. This means actually enlarging and squaring up the butchered routs in all three dimensions, by routing them oversized to where the length, width, and depth are consistently smooth and square. I suppose this could be done with a hand router, but really have my doubts on this...it would take a prodigious amount of jigging and superior control of that loud, nasty, spinning gyroscope of a tool.

I do this on a vertical milling machne, as shown in the photos, which admittedly are of a guitar, not bass. Same principles apply, though, and I've got a 21-fretter that's due to come up for this in the near future.

Here are some Dremel-butchered openings for (gasp) Gibson humbuckers:



You can see also the new maple blocks, rough-cut, which will be trimmed to fit into the newly-enlarged routs.

First the openings are enlarged and squared up, and the blocks glued in place after being trimmed to exactly fit into the openings. Note that they are left to stand proud, to be levelled next:



Next, following levelling, the blocks are machine-routed for original magnet routs:



Pickups are test-fitted:



The finished instrument after painting:

[weemac]

You're not going to gain much in solidity, unless the hardwood fills are very tight-fitting so that a minimum of glue is used and the end result is a monolithic piece of wood, so to speak.

Thats what I did. I put a slight (1/2 to 1 degree perhaps) taper on the fills so they were actually an interference fit!

Paul Ws right though, (as usual ) the mill is a better way to go. you just need to find someone that has one....
emac.

[ricosound]

So Paul, how does one go about getting a quote for your work like this? I have a '77 4001 with a filled bridge route that I would like to restore prior to solid color refin. When I got this project it had a Badass on it (looks like twice due to the extra holes).

[ken_j]

Welcome Michael.

I have done this in the past. I fabricated a jig/template to repair a Badass bridge route and routered it by hand. Make sure you have clean wood for glueing. Once again you need a snug fit, and make sure the grain runs in the same direction as that on the bass.

[jingle_jangle]

Good show, Ken...there's a bit of fettling to do if done by hand, but with careful templating and jigging, you should be able to make it work.

I don't know anyone who looks forward to firing up a router, though...I always grit my teeth...

[johnallg]

So Paul, how does one go about getting a quote for your work like this? I have a '77 4001 with a filled bridge route that I would like to restore prior to solid color refin. When I got this project it had a Badass on it (looks like twice due to the extra holes).

Wes, my 4001 looked just like that (minus the white filler) when I got it; it also had a Badass II. It also had the same extra holes. I wonder if the same person did the work putting on the BA tailpieces? To me it looks like the person mounting the bridge wanted to minimize holes and tried using the same 3 RIC holes and drilling a couple others, then found out it wouldn't intonate. That or they tried a Fender style bridge first. Either way there are extra holes. I got a narrow dowel rod and filled the extra holes, but did not seal them. The RIC tailpiece covers it all.

As for the filled route, I used a new sharp wood chisel and started in the middle and began chipping out the center, working to get the insert in two pieces. Once that is done, then you can work at breaking the halves out. Work slow and it comes out fine. Mine had CV sealing the rout area so the glue didn't bite into raw wood, so broke away easier.

Don't be surprised if you find another plug filling the lower narrower rout too. Same procedure. Hope this helps.

[ricosound]

The white "filler" is paint left in a low spot after sanding the top. I would like to remove all the **** with a mill similar to Paul's work above and replace with clean maple, then route out to stock dimensions and refinish so it doesn't look like a faker when done. I think the bonehead who did this used a chisel due to the square nature of the plug. At least if they would have used maple instead of mahogany, I could work with it.

[johnallg]

Jeez, I didn't notice the original rout was opened up to a square... Now I see your dilemma.

Here is what mine looked like:

tailpiece rout full 400 x 300.jpg (10.48 KiB) Viewed 900 times

[weemac]

[quote="I don't know anyone who looks forward to firing up a router, though...I always grit my teeth...[/quote]

And always make sure it is turned off before pluging it in. (or it will chase you around the room)
emac.

[weemac]

I think the bonehead who did this used a chisel due to the square nature of the plug. At least if they would have used maple instead of mahogany, I could work with it.

Mine was "routed" with a screwdriver! and a philips one at that!
emac.