Kill your radio

[whojamfan]

I'm inspired to ask the question of when you believe was the beginning of the end of popular music. By this I mean "when was it that you realized everything on the radio either sucked or was a bunch of commercial ****. I'm not talking about how Dylans "purist" fans called him a sell out when he went electric, so really dig in here.

When was the first time you turned on the radio and came to the conclusion that it was now a corporate industry, that only played **** it deemed marketable and commercial, and why did you come to this conclusion? Explain it in a way you would to a being from another planet that doesn't understand the meaning of the words cool, sell out, or corporate rock.

I am interested in provoking a thought process that I think as a whole we would find interesting and informative. I think we could all learn more about how we think, why we listen to music the way that we do, and maybe come to conclusions that can actually change how we listen to music. I know myself, as I get older, I find myself enjoying stuff that I would never had given the chance or even hated as a kid.

In essence, I believe we all listened to music to some point in our lives without the expectations that we ended up putting on it that made it ok or not ok to like. You can't google this one, for everyone has a unique and personal taste. This is a question everyone can answer, so don't be too cool for school.

[sowhat]

Somewhere around 2002, but bear in mind that first FM music stations appeared in our country around 1990-91. Why? Well, perhaps it is somehow related to another "dramatic change in my life", or maybe just got tired. To be sincere, i've never really been a radio fan cause the stations only played hits and my favourite songs from different bands and different albums have always been mostly those that didn't manage to get in the charts, and most of my favourite music "doesn't fit in with the radio format". It's not a "principle" or a "position", just a coincidence, i don't really mind "sellouts" talk and all that, and if i like the song, i like it, full stop. Moreover, they've never played the Ramones on the radio here in my country. Or perhaps i just haven't found the "right" station.

[whojamfan]

Thanks for the post Sheena, as you bring a perspective to the table that most of us can't even imagine. All most of us have is the propaganda we were told about your country, and really know nothing about your music scenes, bands, or subcultures. Please, continue to clue us in.

[scotty]

Yeah round about 92 for me.I used to listen to the radio at work and enjoy the music but after a while i thought this is the same old and stopped tuning in.It seemed that it was a manufactured bands that had the same poppy style with the same painted on smiles that looked strained.The eyes in people dont lie and so many young people who perform now look as if they are under tremendous pressure to perform.Music should flow free in people and should not be forced,when music is forced it takes on a lackluster finish that many IMHO call over produced.

[paologregorio]

At least now we have Internet and Satellite radio.

In the Los Angeles/Orange County area we have Indie 103.1 FM, which is a better alternative for many of us to the typical radio station, and in the San Diego area there is 94.9 FM, which is likewise a better alternative for many.

[whojamfan]

Paul, remember the mighty 690? "Don't bring me down" by ELO and "Start me up" by the Stones at least every 20 minutes on the 20 minutes.
I do miss those K earth 101 super 60s weekends, they were always so cool in the early 80s. It was then that I first realized I was born 20 years too late.

[whojamfan]

Let me rephrase this question. All of you people out there in forum land, when was it you decided to not listen to the radio and why. Any of you who's thinking of responding "I've never listened to the radio" are full of it unless you grew up in a cave. At what point was it you realized the radio was no longer meeting your needs musically, and sought out other avenues. Simple enough, everyone can answer, yet in 55 views, only 3 people have responded.

Boomers, I implore you to answer, as you saw AM get overshadowed by FM, (which was supposed to be album oriented), but has become what it sought out to be an alternative to. If you're questioning whether your generation is still valid or relevant, now is your chance to speak up on an issue you know all too well.

The continuation of these forums depends on your participation, otherwise, it's just going to revert to a technical database that's limited to asking questions about how to fix your broken instruments and where to get parts. While these are relative and enjoyable topics, this part of the forum is interested in what you think, and why you think it. I'm always interested in others takes on things, as maybe I can relate, or God forbid, actually learn something new and make a few friends in the process.

We have so much collective knowledge and experience, we could really make this something outstanding. My intention is never to offend, but to provoke thought. Just my 2 cents, how about yours?

[Scastles]

Mike, my prospective on this comes from the inside. I spent 36 years in the radio business, harking back to '69. I think I wandered through it during its long slow death. Along with it went the expansion of popular music. Today, I can't even listen to the radio. Word of mouth has become my source for 'discovery' for music I'll give a listen to.

Two reasons I will always think of as the downfall of radio, and the listeners access to new music, were the advent of the 'programming consultant' and the deregulation of radio station ownership. Both of these unfortunate situations came about in the '80s. Programming consultants first appeared by the late '70's, but by the early '80's every station practically was on board with hiring consultants. Playlists were tightened, experimentation was highly limited and the 'cookie-cutter' format began.
The final death blow came when then President Reagan and the FCC deregulated radio station ownership. This changed the media immensely. Deregulation open the flood gates for multiple radio station ownership. which prior wasn't permitted. Previously a market with 30 radio stations had anywhere from 20 to 30 different owners. That same market today may have 5 or 6 group owners. The 'maw and paw' stations which weren't as restrictive about what they aired were gone. Group owners such as Clear Channel, Infinity, Emmis and others controlled the airwaves coast to coast. What you heard in LA was likely exactly the same thing you heard in New York, from music to personality, everything. The cookie cutter format had expanded.
The record industry also took a hit with degregulation. Smaller labels were bought up or folded. Exposure for new artists became non-existent practically. Accordingly, labels limited what artists they signed. No exposure, no sales.
It was a domino effect.
I was fortunate to work in the business when it was still creative and open, but the last group of stations I worked for was owned by a private equity firm. They could care less what their stations offered listerners, as long as the profits and ratings held up.

[whojamfan]

Thanks Stan, that is what I am talking about. Thank you for giving me yet another reason to dislike Ronald Reagan. It's really great to hear what an insiders take on it was, and just learned something new. Thanks again.

[paologregorio]

I personally think radio deregulation was a good thing. I don't even think there should be an FCC.

Music lovers have more choice now to listen to the music they love han they ever had before, it's just accessed by different means than it used to be. Not a whole lot is done the same way it was thirty or forty years ago. We don't buy vinyl, for the most part, or cassettes, or even CDs these days, nor do we listen to our music via huge component audio systems at home.

My first big favorite radio station was KROQ, which I started to dislike by the early 90s, but that had as much to do with what was out at the time as it did with programming. I could walk into a lot of live music clubs and dislike what I heard on stage just as much as what I heard on the dial. In the 90s there were a number of cool local stations that started up and disappeared after a year, but they weren't bought up by some Clear Channel or whatever conglomerate pumping out the same thing as every other station, but were, in at least two cases I can think of off the top of my head, bought out by Spanish language stations pumping out "banda" music.

Even when "cool" radio stations, such as KROQ in its infancy, played without the overarching control of multi station program director, there were plenty of songs and bands in the playlist that were awful.

[whojamfan]

Good points Paul,I agree with Kroq really going in to the toilet in the 90s, but even in their hayday, played a lot of bad music.But, they were the only station(not college)where you could hear punk and new wave music in the late 70s early 80s in Los Angeles. Rodney on the Roq really had a cool show that was mostly good punk rock, and would play stuff from local bands, and was involved in the scene to a certain extent.

[paologregorio]

This is true, but I imagine that's the case with anything new and revolutionary, and I think a lot of that was due to the fact that a lot of that music was local, in addition to all of the interesting new music coming out in other places. Didn't NYC have something similar? I would think so, as there was a huge music scene in NYC. The scene in L.A., as big as it was, was miniscule in the early days in comparison to all of the other forms of music out there, so it makes sense that there was only one station that did it. Another station, early KNAC in Long Beach, picked up the same format, but it was bought out by owners who switched to heavy metal.

AOR Rock radio would have been gone for the most part in the 80s anyway. Music changed between the 70s and 80s. Tastes changed, just as they always do.

Also, I think that even absent FCC deregulation that the same thing would have happened. MTV started in the early 80s, and to my memory at the time, most stations played one of the formats that was played to death on MTV, so even with a limit on station ownership, owners would have played whatever was in heavy rotation on MTV at the time. MTV began to dominate (and ruin) programming long before stations began to be bought up/consolidate into clear Channel, Infinity, et cetera.

Even absent deregulation, marketing firms would have found a way to market the whole concept of program directors and program directing independently as a service to sell to stations. Even a larger group of regulated station owners would have bought into the concept to stay profitable by playing what was hot and pulling in advertisers.

[whojamfan]

I very much agree on MTVs negative impact on radio programming. It probably really had to do with "video killed the radio star" song and hype, and radio as an industry fearing it was going to become obsolete. Have to keep up with the Joneses.

The FCC, and PRMC to follow were and are a complete joke. It's just like Wal-mart, they won't sell the unrated versions of music, but I can get directors cut horror movies with hours of extra exploding heads and zombies eating guts, endless hardcore snuff style torture/rape movies, or ones just a breath away from pornography, all that contain much worse language than the hardest of rappers or heaviest of metallers. What's up with that?

I just don't get it, why single out music, when it's obviuos the "impressionable" youth would rather be a bad *** thug in Grand Theft Auto games than go buy a cd, learn an instrument,or play in a group. Let's keep this thread on target, I'm going to start another one influenced by my previous sentence.

[paologregorio]

Paul, remember the mighty 690? "Don't bring me down" by ELO and "Start me up" by the Stones at least every 20 minutes on the 20 minutes.
I do miss those K earth 101 super 60s weekends, they were always so cool in the early 80s. It was then that I first realized I was born 20 years too late.

Forgot to answer this: Oh yeah, I remember both of those stations and the programming you describe quite well. The super 60s weekends were great!

To anwer the question directly in a nutshell, if possible, radio started to not meet my needs in the early 90s. I don't think I ascribed all of the other conclusions to that realization though. I thought it had more to do with the then current popular music. I still found plenty of cool music to listen to and go see live-I just didnt' find it on KROQ or any of the other stations.

[scotty]

I cant comment on the US stations for oblivious reasons but i would just like to say the reason for me switching off was because of repetitiveness.There was a time when Ride on Time by Black Box was constant and it was really getting to me.It was also round about this time that I felt that DJs were not speaking about things that were interesting,they were being told what to play and what to say.