So Does Satriani Have a Strong Case?

[winston]

Dec 6, 10:32 AM (ET)

LOS ANGELES (AP) - A noted guitarist has sued members of Coldplay, claiming the band's smash hit "Viva La Vida" copied parts of one of his songs.

The copyright infringement lawsuit by Joe Satriani was filed Thursday in federal court in Los Angeles.

The 52-year-old claims Coldplay copied "substantial, original portions" of his 2004 song, "If I Could Fly." The Coldplay hit, which was nominated for a Grammy this week, has topped charts around the world and been used to sell iPods in commercials.

Representatives for the band and their label, Capitol Records, did not return calls seeking comment on Friday.

Satriani wants a federal judge to order an accounting so he can determine how much money he may be owed, or else stop using the song.

"If I Could Fly"



Viva La Vida



You be the judge!

[paologregorio]

I don't know that it's similar enough, possibly. I need to listen more, but I'm not sure if I can handle it.

On the other hand, I genreally think Coldplay should be sued every time that "Clocks" is played in any medium!

Also, I think Carlos Santana might have a case against Stariani for musical styling infringement...is that possible?

All kidding aside, that's some tasteful playing by Satriani, somewhat reminiscent to my ear of the great Carlos Santana.

[kiramdear]

I vote nice try but no cigar. The structural similarities are too vague and the vocal line differs enough from the guitar's to distinguish it. But let that be a warning to nobody in particular, I guess. Joe's piece is classic AOR (which genre Carlos largely defined and exemplified), the other is sort of eighties' dance-club new-wave pop revival a bit too Boy George for me.

[paologregorio]

or an imitation of 80s synthpop band Alphaville ("Forever Young") with a more Bono-ish (younger Bono) sounding vocal-the Coldplay song, that is.

[kiramdear]

Yucch!

I wish we were voting on artistic merit. I'm afraid Joe has a heavy burden.

[winston]

OK so far I am feeling a bit better...............I could not hear any resemblance that was contiguous. Joe's work is in my opinion brilliant and unparalleled by the banal effort put forth by Cold Play which conincidentally left me entirely "cold".

I really don't know why he is wasting his time pursuing this course of action.

[kiramdear]

I'd be interested to be a fly on the courthouse wall if Joe thinks he has a case, but I still don't hear enough likeness by myself after three listenings ...

[johneek]

I'm sure that a bunch of people will disagree, but I think there are more similarities between these two songs than between the Chili Peppers' "Dani California" and Petty's "Mary Jane's Last Dance." Is it enough to warrant a law suit? I'm not an attorney, but personally I think Joe's grasping at straws.

There was a time when copying was seen as the greatest form of flattery, but that's not a particularly popular philosophy in today's world. Who of us can say that anything we've done is "completely" ours, and uninfluenced by anything out side ourselves?

Who I am and what I like certainly impact my playing, but who can calculate the impact of the countless 1-4-5 chord progressions I've listened to in my lifetime?

[whojamfan]

Chuck Berry would have Bill Gates as a gardener if he got paid for everyone who copped his licks. I find it hypocritical that Kieth Richards was so hell bent on suing(was it The Verve?)because he felt their hit was a copy of "Last Time". Such outcry coming from a man who built his career ripping off other artists.

As far as Joe, who knows? Judges generally know nothing about music, and it will probably come down to who has the better lawywer. Maybe Joe could get John Fogerty to come in and play for the court

[tennis_nick]

No one here's this as being to similar???

Try listening to both at the same time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofFw9DK ... re=related



What caught me was
a. same key,
b. same tempo

in addition to the same melody line, which is protected.

[winston]

Hmmm. Now that is strange Nick. When they are overlapped like that I can hear it for myself and they do sound much the same. Cool. Thanks for posting that. I must concede that my doubt has been proven wrong. In light of this better information I suspect that Joe may be on to something.

[kiramdear]

Now I'm thoroughly intrigued.

Here's what I did, if anyone wants to check me: I went to the two vids that are posted above.

I learn Joe's song with my guitar and play along with the chorus. Here's the bass line: Em | A | D | Bm | (x3) fourth line varies Em | A | G | A | then to the verse. In numbers that's 2 - 5 - 1 - 6 (x3) then 2 - 5 - 4 - 5, (the turnaround) and so on.

Now Coldplay. The "chorus" if there is one, the whole song is a loop, majorly, structurally speaking. But the bass line/loop goes C# | Eb | Bb | F |. Numerically 4 | 5 | 1 | 6 | looped over and over.

Allowing for the actual difference in key, the numbers don't match for me.

I think the case hangs on the matching melody lines proposal. Even in the altered-for-comparison vid you can hear enough variance, especially at the turnaround, to grant reasonable doubt in my mind.

[winston]

The Nashville numbering system eh Kira? Very impressive. I never got around to using that. I can transpose keys almost automatically so I found little use for that system.

I can see a melodic resemblance of the two bodies of work now thanks to the post by Nick. Theoretically the case is weak but the ear can discern enough contiguous parts that are similar thanks to the cut and paste contained in the video, again provided by Nick. As a result I am beginning to think that Joe may have a point and perhaps enough substance to build a legal case.

Your thoughts?

[kiramdear]

The superimposition video was very useful for comparison, yes. The only part of the line that doesn't match pretty close is the bit at the end of the 4th time around. That's the turnaround that the other song doesn't have. The 2 vs. 4 chord disparity consists of "relative minor" relational differences (pun intended).

But I wish him the best of luck with it. It may depend on the strength of the presentation in court. I guess I don't understand the exact criteria that he has to satisfy or I would offer a prediction.

[Ric O'Sound]

This is an interesting discussion. It's a tough call. My own personal take is that I don't think it's gonna be easy for Satriani, but stranger things have happened. There are a lot of songs out there that sound similar to others. There are only so many possible combinations of notes and chords that you can slap together to form a song, so over time, there are gonna be new songs that end up sounding like songs that have already been done. Those of us that write have probably all written songs that have been in the "style of" or "inspired" by another. But where is the boundary line between inspiration and plagiarism? Can one prove intent? Glad I don't have to decide this one.