Possible 12 string design upgrades

[tennis_nick]

I keep seeing people talking about intonation, so I got a few ideas that I thought might be cool, Feel free to add some things and discuss mentioned ideas!

1. Since the 6 saddle apparently sounds better, the 12 intonates better, and the G pairing is usually the most offending pair, why not develop a 7 saddle bridge? you'd have 2 strings per saddle, except for the G which would have a saddle per string!

2. Take a page from the Earvana nut, and develop a new position for the octave strings that compensates for the different intonation.

3. Move to East German and use nothing but midi from now on.



Strongly considering number 3.

[whojamfan]

I'd really like to see the same guitar fitted with a 6 saddle bridge, then a 12 saddle, while making an accurate recording of both. I'd be very interested to hear the difference between the two, and if there is really any neglible difference. Two different guitars isn't accurate as all guitars sound slightly different. I've read about this argument for years, and would like a comparison on the same instrument to put this issue to rest. As far as intonation goes, some need the 12, some don't. It would be a shame if someone needing a 12 saddle bridge didn't get one out of fear of losing some tone, as it would be to see someone shell out the dough and find out that it does.

If you want to talk about improvements, a tailpiece that doesn't make you wish you had 3 arms to string up would be nice. I must say, I absolutely love the new headstocks that are cut all the way through. Good move RIC!

[YukonCor55]

When I bought my 370/12 from POTR I asked Chris about a 12 saddle bridge. He knows what a fanatic I am about proper setup (some would say anal retentive) and he simply told me, set it up to your liking with the 6 saddle bridge and play it! So I did. I got the action nice and low and set the intonation for the standard strings. When I got done, it was dead on including all of the octaves except for the D string (just barely out with the tuner.) No audibly perceptible tuning issues (at least to my ears.) After that I've gotta say I'm pretty happy with the 6 saddle bridge. I've got a properly intonated 12 string and get to keep $125 in my pocket! By the way, I too love the new headstock with the cuts all the way through!!

[collin]

If you want to talk about improvements, a tailpiece that doesn't make you wish you had 3 arms to string up would be nice.

Aka "third hand"

[jdogric12]

the G pairing is usually the most offending pair

In my experience, like McGuinn's, the low E and A pairs are the most troublesome.

[whojamfan]

If you want to talk about improvements, a tailpiece that doesn't make you wish you had 3 arms to string up would be nice.

Aka "third hand"

Ladies and gentlemen, Red Green on restringing Rickenbackers
Ahh, the never ending uses for duct tape............

[paologregorio]

I've already thought up a tailpiece change that would make changing strings a breeze, and be cosmetically indistinguishable from the current tailpiece.

Currently, I use a capo for the third arm/hand-it works pretty well.

[winston]

Currently, I use a capo for the third arm/hand-it works pretty well.

That's the method that I use as well Paul. I tape the strings to the R tailpiece and then capo the strings to the neck. It works well. Removing the masking tape is easy.

I am really fussy about intonation and I don't have any intonation issues with my JG 360-12/WB. It has a six saddle standard Rickenbacker 12 string bridge.

[teb]

Twelve vs. six saddles - I've had a couple converted and can't say that I really noticed any kind of tone or sound changes (other than those particular guitars playing more in tune). I usually use a JangleBox and once I run them through that and adjust the amp there are a lot more things contributing to the sound than just the bridge type. I don't seem to have much trouble getting the basic sound I'm looking for in either case. Are they exactly the same? Probably not, just as there are some differences every time you mess with the controls, change volume, change rooms. or from guitar to guitar - but it's pretty darned close. I have a 12-saddle that I bought for my 340/12, but it sounds fine with the original six-saddle, so why mess with it unless it needs it down the line for some strange reason. My 370/12, on the other hand, was drastically improved when the 12-saddle went on and I didn't notice any loss in sound quality.

If you have seriously worked with your six-saddle and it's still bugging you, I wouldn't hesitate to switch and I really doubt you will have any regrets. If your six-saddle is doing the job, leave it.

[jdogric12]

I guess I'll have to do a video or something. I never have problems restringing an R. I prefer them to trapezeseses. And I don't even use the tape idea, which I have to say, is very clever. Trapezezezeseses force the order you change them in (or at least pair them). This is not the best way, once you get up to the headstock and realize you have to do some tricky manuevering.

[jingle_jangle]

Restringing any Rick 12--whether with a trap or an "R", is quite easy if you start with the low E and highest E (the topmost and bottommost strings) and tape the tailpiece in place with a soft cloth under it to protect the finish underneath. Tune these up to some tension, so they support the tailpiece and remove the tape and cloth.

Now, work from outermost toward the center tuners, in order on each side:

High E unison
B unison
B unison
G oct
G

then:

Low E oct
A
A oct
D
D oct

If you do them in this order, there's no snaking strings over or under others to prevent interference--they fall into place naturally.

[stringman]

I have seen the regular base plates sold with elongated holes so you have the ablity to mount your old original 6 saddle bridge be it 12 or 6 onto the new base plate and move the base plate forward or back to gain perfect intonation witout spending the extra money for a new 12 saddle bridge. Buying a elongated base plate is a lot cheaper then buying a whole bridge.Just make shure you clean and polich the base plate area before mounting and after mounting.

[jingle_jangle]

The baseplates available from the RIC boutique have this configuration, and newer Ricks are fitted with these, too.

[deaconblues]

Restringing an R is easy...just take it one at a time and keep tension on the string with the hand you aren't using to wind so it doesn't fall out.

[elreydlp]

I've already thought up a tailpiece change that would make changing strings a breeze, and be cosmetically indistinguishable from the current tailpiece.

Currently, I use a capo for the third arm/hand-it works pretty well.

One more for the capo. They're also helpful on Bigsbys. I'd like to try that open headstock. The original is a hassle.

My intonation problems involve the Low E pair and the G pair; not only on my 330-12, but on the other 12's I own and have owned (too numerous to list) EXCEPT my original '66 Fender XII I bought new, another Fender XII I had a few years ago, and a MIJ Stratocaster XII that used the same 12-saddle bridge. I use D'addario and/or GHS 10-46 12-string sets.
I'd like to see compensated saddles and/or nuts on the offending strings, but I've gotten used to adjusting my tuning on the fly and consider that a trade off for the great Ric sound.