Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

It appears it is time to change the valves...sorry, tubes.....in my Fender Hot Rod Deluxe Special Edition. I was talking to Paul A about it and he sent me this link

http://thetubestore.com/sba-hrdx.html

which seems pretty good value, even if I have it sent Airmail. It has 3xGT12AX7 and 2xGT6L6B

It seems these valves will fit and work nicely, but Paul thought I might need the bias changing. Has anyone any ideas as to whether I will need a tech to install them and the bias changing? Does anyone use these valves themselves? I have almost zero knowledge of amps apart from where I plug my guitar in... I am willing to learn and would like to be self-sufficient so if I can fit them myself, then I will.

Any thoughts/advice/warnings/recommendations? It would be much appreciated.

I forgot to mention that I'd buy the package and try just changing the preamp tubes first and see if that improves your sound to your satisfaction. Evenutally you'll need to change the power tubes though, and going by the book, an amp tech should do the biasing, unless you want to learn how to do that, which would require the purchase of some electronic gear, but you'd probably want to watch someone else do it first.

Here's a bit of Wikinfo on your amp: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_Hot_Rod_Deluxe

Here's a how to video from Eurotubes regarding how to bias one's amp: http://www.eurotubes.com/euro-Fender-HRDV.htm

My recent experience with The Tube Store is good.
They shipped the very next day, as promised. They sent confirmations and tracing info and everything arrived packed nicely and worked !

Sarah, you will need to re-bias if you replace the 6L6 tubes. Here is the Fender site schematic for the Hot Rod Deluxe:

http://www.fender.com/support/amp_schem ... ematic.pdf

The bias pot is in the power supply area.

Thanks for the help and advice folks. It is greatly appreciated. Does anyone have any valves they would recommend which would not require a re-bias?

Doesn't Fender have a relationship with Groove Tubes wherein the tubes have been measured and are labeled as to a range of bias, so that a person could buy replacement tubes with no need to rebias them? Of course, this only applies to power tubes.

jps wrote:Doesn't Fender have a relationship with Groove Tubes wherein the tubes have been measured and are labeled as to a range of bias, so that a person could buy replacement tubes with no need to rebias them? Of course, this only applies to power tubes.

It is more than a relationship as FMIC now owns GT. The Fender/Groove Tubes (tubes will have both logos) are indeed color coded tubes based on the bias range. They are white, blue, and red if I recall correctly (this is the actual color of the logo on the tube). I still think it is a good idea to bias them. I have a link to a site that discusses in great detail the use of different 6L6's in a HR Deluxe but it is either shut down or having server issues. If I find it starts to work in the next few days I will post the link.

Rickygirl wrote:Thanks for the help and advice folks. It is greatly appreciated. Does anyone have any valves they would recommend which would not require a re-bias?

This would only work if you knew what the bias was on the tubes now.

It took alot of searching but I found it. I also had a Fender catalog showing Fender part numbers but I must have purged it.
The Fender tube scale is:
Blue = GT 1-3 range
White = GT 4-7 range
Red = GT 8-10 range
Link: http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/Rating.html
If your tubes sre original you may get away with plugging in tubes per this chart. I still think it is good to check bias as there could be some drift in the circuit.

Sarah, setting the bias when you change the power tubes is a very good idea on a fixed bias amp, which this amp is. It should be checked and set even when using graded tubes such as the Groove Tubes mentioned, but these will usually be closer than run of the mill tubes bought elsewhere, though you have to know your starting point (i.w. where the tubes are biased now) and you also pay more for graded tubes like that.

Setting the bias can also be very dangerous if you don't know what you are doing because the amp is live and running with the chassis opened when you set the bias. You could pick up a Weber Bias Rite https://taweber.powweb.com/biasrite/br_page.htm which helps greatly to set the bias. He makes meters that check the plate voltage and the cathode current so all you need is to take those numbers and do the calculation (which I could explain later if you wanted to know) but you still have to open the chassis in a live amp to adjust the bias voltage, and you need an insulated screwdriver to do this, preferably completely plastic.

If you know what you are doing or take the time to learn, then setting the bias in an amp is very simple and safe as long as some safety precautions are followed. I was just doing this to an amp project in the garage and have lived to tell about it, so it can be done. Of course I've also spent many years reading and learning about amps, and quite a few years working on them too, so I'm a bit ahead of most people. Still, it isn't hard. If you want to learn, I and others can help you.

Greg

Thank you so much for taking the time to find the information Ken, which is really helpful and thank you Greg for your advice. I think it would be prudent to get it checked out the first time, but I could ask the tech to show me how to do it. then in the future I would have all the information. I managed to find the instruction book and found the colour coding information. too, but your explanations helped understand a lot more clearly.

It is a tricky decision to decide whether to just replace the same valves, or to upgrade them as one good friend said these valves do not give the best sound, though that is obviously a personal view. I am not so tuned in that I can tell minute differences as some people are able, so there would be no point going for something expensive. I just want something decent that will suit my music which is mostly rock/indie kind of stuff.

As I have had my amp for 2 1/2 years now (from new) and I have played it a lot AND it is making some rather odd noises, I think I need to do a complete set change. The set Paul A picked out for me seems pretty good and if the bias would benefit from checking then I don't need to necessarily replace with the exact same valves.

Really helpful chaps. Thanks a million.

I located the Fender Frontline that I had assumed I had tossed. Here are the part numbers for the Fender-Groove Tubes 6L6 duets:
099-4001-102 Red
099-4001-202 White
099-4001-302 Blue
USA Fender Groove Tubes (reissue GE clear tops) duets:
099-4007-102 Red
099-4007-202 White
099-4007-302 Blue

ken_j wrote:

jps wrote:Doesn't Fender have a relationship with Groove Tubes wherein the tubes have been measured and are labeled as to a range of bias, so that a person could buy replacement tubes with no need to rebias them? Of course, this only applies to power tubes.

It is more than a relationship as FMIC now owns GT. The Fender/Groove Tubes (tubes will have both logos) are indeed color coded tubes based on the bias range.

Regarding Fender and Groove Tube --- this article was in the NAMM publication"UpBeat Daily" datelined Friday, Jan 15, 2010
FENDER SUSPENDS GROOVE TUBE PRODUCTION :
Fender has paired down production on its Grove Tubes brand. The company will focus on vacuum tube components. All other products have been suspended. Feder will honor all existing warranties per the terms of the warranty included with Grove Tubes products.

Good thing I didn't buy that Brick I was thinking of! This smacks of Gibson, buying brands anf then discontinuing them. Trace Elliot comes to mind, for one; fortunately, Peavey picked up the reins and turned TE into a proud company again.

I think Manley will get my business, instead.

jps wrote:Good thing I didn't buy that Brick I was thinking of! This smacks of Gibson, buying brands anf then discontinuing them. Trace Elliot comes to mind, for one; fortunately, Peavey picked up the reins and turned TE into a proud company again.

I think Manley will get my business, instead.

The Manley stuff is really awesome in build and sound, and are a really good company