My '67 360/12 Restoration Project...

[tonewoods]

Hi all....

Here's a guitar I've had for about 30 years...
A guy who had it before me--who I later ran into--had a problem with plastic, so-ooo he stripped all of it, replacing the pickguard with a slab of teak...

Here's some pics:

http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee22 ... cker%2012/

About 20 years ago, I bought a replacement pickguard and Ricky logo from John Hall at Rickenbacker, who also gave me some binding to replace the thinned binding on the back if I wished...

Anyway, I'll be restoring this thing soon....

I'm thinking I'll never get it back to spec with the missing fingerboard inlays and neck binding, so I was going to maybe go with a color you don't see on these.....
Oly White?
Pink?

It was originally Fireglow, or so the reddish paint in the truss rod cavity suggests...

Anyway, thought you folks would like to have a look at it...
Bruce

[collin]

Hi Bruce, welcome!

Cool guitar, and good news.....it's not a 360/12 , it's a much rarer 366/12 Converter model that somebody has modified to being "non-converter" by plugging/doweling the mounting holes for the comb-assembly hardware.

These rare guitars were made between 1966-1969ish with a comb that would grab the 6 octave strings and pull any combination of them down, to play it as a 6 string etc.







I'd open those doweled holes up again and convert back to a 366/12 ! Shame about the cool inlays, but it can be restored again, i'm sure. A company called Winfield Vintage - www.winfieldvintage.com sells replacement comb assemblies, complete with all the hardware and proper plastic.

The old owner likely didn't have a problem with plastic, he just removed the comb because he wanted a straight 12-string, and didn't like the unusual look of the pickguards on the converter comb models after the comb assembly is removed. Solution = teak pickguards (I guess!).

[clementc3]

I don't know if replacing the fretboard inlays is a DIY project that you would consider but it looks like it can be done if you are truly ambitious (which I am not, at least in this regard). If you do a search on "crushed pearl" you will find a thread called "sample board"

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=394970&start=0&hil ... rl#p619850

where you can see great fretboard inlay examples done by Curt Wilson & Todd Bradshaw.

Search on "Lots of Projects Nearing Completion" and you can see the great work done by Paul Wilczynski, on fretboards and complete refinishes. (Keep in mind that Paul's signature line says, "Where the sanding never stops...")

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=379871&p=619897&hi ... ts#p619897

Paul is in San Francisco if you feel like punting to a pro and a true artist.

Have fun and post progress photos when you can - you will have an appreciative audience here!

[8mileshigher]

That is so bizarre that the previous owner even replaced the neck inlays like that !! Can't imagine what the inlays and binding had to do with the comb apparatus.

He must not have hated all plastic, because the selector switch and volume and tone knobs are still plastic.
Anyway, best of luck with the restoration project !

[grazioso]

plastic gone = heat damage? could it have suffered in fire? that would explain plastics gone and crazy sanding marks ....

[libratune]

It seems to me you have a number of options. As Collin said, this was likely originally a 366-12. You could restore it to a 366-12 with the proper hardware/plastic. That would be a bit pricey but would likely cover up most of the dowel-filled holes so you would have more refin options. If you didn't restore it to 366 status, you could have it painted an opaque color to disguise the filled-in holes from the removed 366 hardware/plastic. If you wanted to keep within the range of being period-correct for 1967, you could go with a dark Burgundyglo or Azureglo, though I believe the official word is that these colors weren't regular production finish colors until 1968. Of course you could always do Jetglo and be period-correct.

I personally would not try to redo the neck inlays myself. From what I understand, the sparkle inlay process is complex. An intermediate step would be to have fretboard inlays made of some kind of solid plastic -- that is, assuming the current inlays can be removed without damaging the fretboard wood. On the other hand, you could leave them as they are and/or even put dot markers into the wood inlays just to do something different. I don't think re-binding the neck should be hard (if done by a luthier) or expensive.

Good luck!

[deaconblues]

Burgundy!!!

[tonewoods]

Wow, thanks everybody....!
Great info...

The big bugaboo on this restoration would be the neck binding.
It's gone, and the dude sanded the neck down to meet the new surface of the wood fingerboard...
It plays fine, but how in the world would you go about getting that to look/feel "right"?

Everything else--inlays, back binding, F-hole binding, paint, is doable...

He must not have hated all plastic, because the selector switch and volume and tone knobs are still plastic.

Here's a funny story...
I'm playing a gig here on the island, and this guy comes up and says "that's my old guitar"!
He proudly tells me how cool it is "now that all that plastic is gone"...

Needless to say, I was not as impressed...

He was a boat guy, thus the teak....

So-ooo, is a 366/12 rare enough that it should be restored to it's former glory as a 366?
I don't want to do the wrong thing here...
If "yes", I'd be tempted to offer it to someone who is Jonsin' for a 366, and do what it takes to make it whole again...

Burgundy!!!

So-ooo, what colors are period correct for 1967??
Is Burgundy an option??

Thanks all...
Really appreciate it....
Bruce

[libratune]

You can get some of your questions answered by poking around in the Register. Strictly speaking, period correct finish colors for 1967 woud be Mapleglo, Fireglo and Jetglo. Maybe Azureglo -- there is one Azureglo (blue) in late 1967; the Burgundys don't start until 1968.

68 Azureglo 375 -- Refin

366 value: The convertible models (366,336,456) have kind of an oddball appeal, but to do a 366 resto is extra money and hardware on a guitar that is never going to be stock again (refin, neck binding, fretboard?). The 366/336 models had a bit of extra internal bracing/wood to take the extra screws that were needed to bolt the mechanism into the body, but that's insignificant. I don't think you'd be doing an injustice to just treat it like a 360-12 and go from there. In short, I wouldn't complicate things by going down the 366 resto path.

If it were mine, I'd do a Azureglo or Burgundy refin, put white plastic on it and figure out what to do about the fretboard inlays -- preferably before the refin if you are going to remove/change them.

PS -- Judging by the paint remnants in the TRC cavity, I would guess that your guitar was originally Fireglo.

Good luck!

[Scastles]

Ron, I'm sure you know more on the finishes than I, but I thought Burgundy started in '63, and even Autumnglo's were made up through the late '60's.

[collin]

So-ooo, is a 366/12 rare enough that it should be restored to it's former glory as a 366?
I don't want to do the wrong thing here...
If "yes", I'd be tempted to offer it to someone who is Jonsin' for a 366, and do what it takes to make it whole again...

I think so, Bruce.....it's rarer than a 360/12 and worth more money too (obviously less with the repairs etc...) but it would be cool to see it go back to a converter model, as it once was.

Though Ron does have a point-----it's already had so much work done to it that you couldn't really factor in value as a reason for going back to a 366, it should have more to do with your preferences, color choice, and if you want to get historical about it etc.

[FretlessOnly]

I'm struggling with similar thoughts (although less value) with an April '73 4001FL. The pre-change FLs are few and far between, and I'm trying to figure out if a truly vintage finish (one available in '73) would be the right way to go, or since I'm a player at the end of it all, just having it in a color I really love would be the better way to go. Of course, mine's playable now, but with some smaller issues.

According to these guys, and they seem to have their act together (I've referred folks to them for purchases and they've been pleased), Burgundy was available from '63-'84:

http://www.the-music-connection.com/ricinfo.htm

Scroll down about half way to get to the finish timeline.

[doctorwho]

Welcome, Bruce!

With regard to the neck binding question, I suggest that you post that question in The Vibrola section where the expert luthiers hang out (provide a link to this thread so they can see the pictures). You might need a really close-up shot of the existing neck-fretboard transition.

[libratune]

Ron, I'm sure you know more on the finishes than I, but I thought Burgundy started in '63, and even Autumnglo's were made up through the late '60's.

I neglected to mention Autumnglo, which was a finish available through the '60s. I even have one or two of them. To me, though, the '60s Autumnglo is so similar to a dark Fireglo that it is often really hard to tell the difference.

According to these guys, and they seem to have their act together (I've referred folks to them for purchases and they've been pleased), Burgundy was available from '63-'84:

http://www.the-music-connection.com/ricinfo.htm

Scroll down about half way to get to the finish timeline.

On the Burgundy, I'm sticking to my guns. I know the color chart reproduced on the Music Connection says what it says, but it's been wrong before and it is wrong on Burgundy being an available finish from 1963 to 1967. The chart, BTW, is taken from the Rittor Music Rickenbacker book (page 174) so it is not proprietary to Music Connection/Mike Parks, a great RIC dealer. It is just reproduced on their site as a service.

I would like to see an original finish Burgundyglo Rick dated to 1967 or before. I've been collecting vintage Ricks for many years and I can't recall ever seeing one. Based on what I have seen and read, the Burgundy finish on Ricks made its debut in 1968. I'd like to be proven wrong!

[tonewoods]

Wow, thanks for all the input, folks....

I'll tuck all this away and see what comes out the other end...

I'll been doing a lot of antique finishing and relicing lately, which is why I thought this would be a good time to take this on now...

Here's a '53 P-Bass copy I put together awhile back:

http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee22 ... ss%20Copy/

And a Grestch 6120 that I antiqued:

http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee22 ... ch%206120/

So-ooo, looking forward to doing this thing right, or at least as right as it can be done...

Thanks again folks...
Bruce