Radical 12 string tunings

[Halbert]

I was searching YouTube for videos that could help decypher what Michael Rutherford was playing in "The Cinema Show" (From "Selling England By The Pound") and when I saw this guy's videos it was a bit like getting smacked on the back of the head with a old 1x4. I had always assumed two 12 strings were playing, I was seemingly wrong....

[jps]

I take it you never saw Genesis back in the day?

I saw the SEBTP tour twice, once on their way out west and then coming back east during that tour in '73.

[Halbert]

I never saw Genesis "back in the day", the day being prior to 1975. I saw them in 1980 I think. I did see the very next best thing to seeing Genesis in 1973 and that was to see "The Musical Box" a couple of years ago when they were reproducing the SEBTP American tour. I have to admit, I was so struck dumb by the exactness of the performance ( Genesis members have stated that "The Musical Box" played the parts live better than they themselves did!) that I really wasn't trying to analyze how the guys were performing these parts. I was just taking in act as a whole and not worrying about trying to learn anything.

[libratune]

I was just taking in act as a whole and not worrying about trying to learn anything.

Good man, going to the concert to take in the experience.

Jeff knows all the parts, but he's not telling.

Hal, did you deciper the tuning of the D and G strings (and/or their octaves) on the clip you provided? It seems that those two pairs were tuned differently and the other four pairs tuned to standard.

[sloop_john_b]

The tuning in that clip, low-to-high, is:

d-D
g-G
a-D
e-G
b-b
e-e

(lowercase letters denote the higher octaves)

[Halbert]

Good man, going to the concert to take in the experience.

Jeff knows all the parts, but he's not telling.

Hal, did you deciper the tuning of the D and G strings (and/or their octaves) on the clip you provided? It seems that those two pairs were tuned differently and the other four pairs tuned to standard.

I'm not sure what you mean. Toneknob ( the fellow in the clip) demonstrates the tuning at the start of the clip. The thought of trying to disect this by ear alone is daunting.
I'll bet Jeff knows a thing or two. I'm not in my progressive phase at the moment but when the mood strikes....

Its also worth noting that this is not best performed on a stock Ric 12 string because the way the string courses are arranged on a Ric. On Mike Rutherfords Rics, he had them modified so the higher pitched string was on the top...

[libratune]

The tuning in that clip, low-to-high, is:

d-D
g-G
a-D
e-G
b-b
e-e

(lowercase letters denote the higher octaves)

Thanks, John.

[sloop_john_b]

Well, I got curious and tuned my 360/12 like that. Don't worry about the courses being switched - just pick up instead of down and you'll get the sound.

Here are the chord shapes (apologies for the sloppiness):

--17---------13--------13-------10--------12--------8--------8--------5---------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------8-------8------6------6-------5-------6-------5------
--15---------15--------12-------12--------10--------10-------7--------7-----7--------5------5------3-------3-------3--------3------
--0----------0---------0---------0---------0----------0-------0--------0-----0-------0------0--------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------0-------0-------0--------0-------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They weren't that hard to pick out - all you need to do is pick them the right way, which isn't very hard either if you just watch the clip. It always started with the lower open string, followed by either the E or B, then the e-G pair (g string).

I've never heard this tune before. Quite lovely. Thanks for posting and happy proggin'.

[Halbert]

You're a quick study John.
My favorite early Genesis pieces had similar 12 string parts. Another great early Genesis classic is called "Can Utility and the Coastliners" from the album "Foxtrot" I couldn't tell you where the name came from but it's about King Canute and it has loads of nice 12 string parts some representitive Hackett lead and all reined in with Melotron and Hammond organ. Classic early 70's progressive.

[jps]

I've never heard this tune before. Quite lovely. Thanks for posting and happy proggin'.

[jdogric12]

Here's some info I found on the internets once:

Mike Rutherford’s alternate guitar tunings

Mike used various different tunings, in the early years particularly. There's some disagreement about what they were, but the most often cited are shown below. It seems that neither Steve nor Tony used anything other than standard tuning. All tunings are listed high to low.

Cinema Show: Acoustic 12 string tuning in first half only - the second half is in standard tuning.

1st & 2nd strings: E (unison)
3rd & 4th strings: B (unison)
5th string: G
6th string: down to E
7th string: D
8th string: down to A
9th & 10th strings: down to G (+ octave)
11th & 12th strings: down to D (+ octave)

Musical Box: Electric 12 string

1st & 2nd strings: F# (unison)
3rd & 4th strings: F# (unison)
5th & 6th strings: F# (+octave)
7th & 8th strings: D (+octave)
9th & 10th strings: A (+octave)
11th & 12th strings: E (+octave)

It's been suggested that the 3rd & 4th strings could also be tuned to C#.

Turn It On Again

1st string: E
2nd string: A
3rd string: F#
4th string: D
5th string: B
6th string: E

More Fool Me

This is in some kind of open Eb tuning, possibly:

1st string: Eb
2nd string: Bb
3rd string: G
4th string: Eb
5th string: Bb
6th string: Eb

Harlequin

Open G tuning:

1st string: D
2nd string: B
3rd string: G
4th string: D
5th string: B
6th string: D

Dance on the Volcano, Los Endos, Squonk, Home by the Sea (and others):

Dropped D tuning (top Es tuned down to D with all other strings as standard)

In The Rapids/ It: (12 string)

These are probably in standard tuning, though the bottom E may be tuned down to D. An alternative suggestion that may make them easier to play is:

1st string: E
2nd string: B
3rd string: F#
4th string: C#
5th string: A
6th string: D

[scott_s]

This Jimmy Bryant classic was recorded not on his trademark Telecaster, but a custom 12-string where each pair was tuned to a major third:



Well, the solo bit at 0:42 was on a 6-string, but you get the idea...

- Scott

[Halbert]

This Jimmy Bryant classic was recorded not on his trademark Telecaster, but a custom 12-string where each pair was tuned to a major third:

- Scott

Like Django Reinhardt on acid! I actually kind of liked it.