Vintage Pickups: Long pole? Short pole? None?

[chucksimms]

Trying to learn a little here about pickups on vintage Ricks and would love to glean some knowledge about changes, variations and properties of Rick pickups.
Examining my '66 365 and it appears to have poles that extend into the body cavity. Huge sounding guitar, warm and full, especially on the neck pickup.
Looking at my '68 375: bridge pickup only has poles visible, guitar sounds pretty thin and strat like. The other pickups have only a grey wire visible from pickup into the body. Is this a standard arrangement on the 375 from this era? If I desired a tone closer to the '66 should I alter the pickups? (i.e. add windings or some other mod?)
Thanks!

[Grey]

The only variation I know of is the 'transitional' Hi-Gain pickups which came between the earlier toasters and the later, widely used Hi-Gains.

Here's a comparison I did in the past showing the smaller, open poles of the early 70's transitional pickups, and the later covered 'button tops'.

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/4043/polepieces.png

[scott_s]

I think Chuck is talking about how the polepieces in vintage toaster pickups extended below the pickup body for a while, then Rickenbacker "trimmed" them back. I've heard they did it so they wouldn't have to route the guitar for them (which tended to weaken the neck-joint area), but to be sure, you might want to post this in the pickup forum...

- Scott

[sys700]

I recently sold a late 66 short pole pickup 12-string for this very reason. The long pole pickups sound more aggressive and louder.

[chucksimms]

Thanks for the response. I have posted this in the pickup forum as well, but because it's a vintage issue I thought I'd ask here too. The long pole pickups in my '66 365 are indeed much louder and offer more range. To get this guitar closer in sound to the '66 365 I'm thinking more windings? Different magnets in the pole pieces? Obviously, I won't be routing out the body on a '68 375 O.S.!

[apossibleworld]

When they changed from long pole to short pole, that's only on the neck pickup, right? Or did they change magnets on the bridge pickup too, for standardization?

You're talking about "adding more windings", which would only be possible if you were to completely rewind, and rebuild, the pickup from scratch. I wouldn't do that on a vintage guitar, unless it's been severely modified already. Plus that might give you a different sound, but not the one you're looking for. You have quite a rare guitar, and modifying the pickups seems nearly as drastic as modifying the body. I'd enjoy it as it is, a darn cool thing in its own right. Otherwise, the best solution would honestly be for you to sell your guitar, and buy another one that you like the sound of more.

[chucksimms]

Yes, both the middle pickup and bridge do not have poles visible. I'm not sure on the timeline for changes to their production. If it's all stock (and there are certainly some inconsistencies at Rick in the '60s) someone might know if magnets were changed as well during production. When I bought it from Olivia's last year they did mention that they'd had one pickup rewound. My '66 is from June and it has long poles; the 335 I have from '66 someone swapped active pickups w/ toaster covers!
I don't really want to screw with the integrity of this instrument and thought about selling it, but it is beautiful- I love looking at it, plays unbelievably well and has a nice slim neck. I was even thinking about trading for another vintage Rick, but who knows if it'll sound any different than what I have? It's a pretty rare guitar and what would be a fair trade? It's probably worth more than most Ricks out there. The only one that I thought I might want is a '66 365 O.S. at CME but they weren't interested in a trade.
Ideally, I just want this one to sound a little more substantial but do not want to effect a change that will dramatically alter the vintage cachet. I thought that swapping magnets or adding winds might be reversible, but that's why I'm asking here.
Again, thanks for any and all responses!

[billydlight]

You might just turn you're amp up! Its what I do

[chucksimms]

You might just turn you're amp up! Its what I do

I've tried that but it only can do so much. I'm thinking now that I'll swap pickups- that keeps the vintage ones untouched, no routing, easy to change back. I'll either look for the older 'hot' toasters or maybe highgains with toaster covers. As always, any responses welcome!

[billydlight]

How bout some pics of these beauties??

[chucksimms]

I can never figure out how to post pics! I'm going to take some new ones soon when my new 12 string arrives and see if I can post them.

[apossibleworld]

One tip about the guitar at CME -- even though their prices have generally seemed really high, I'm under the impression that they're considering lower offers these days, in ways that they weren't a few years ago. So if you could find a buyer for your guitar, you could probably get a better cash deal on the other guitar you want.

[chucksimms]

Thanks for the tip!

[badeggs]

Here's a comparison I did in the past showing the smaller, open poles of the early 70's transitional pickups, and the later covered 'button tops'.

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/4043/polepieces.png

That guitar on the bottom looks very familiar to me...

[apossibleworld]

Interesting. What I'm really curious about is the change that occurred in the mid 60s, when they made the poles shorter on the underside of the neck pickup, so that they don't have to route the body in a weak point. That's why some of the earlier 60s guitars have bad neck angles, because of that structural weakness -- they've collapsed over time. And yet the earlier pickups supposedly sound better, which is what the original post was asking about. Anybody know exactly when that change occurred?