Flat Wounds

[08 Ric 4003]

This topic has probably been discussed but here goes. I have been playing guitar for 6 years or so. I have owned my first bass a F Jazz with a Warmoth neck, which is sweeeeeeet, for a little over a year and my Ric 4003 for about half a year. Both basses have frets and one day I will build or buy a fretless. I have never used flat wound stings. I have played a few basses in stores that have them. I want to put flats on my Ric. I use strings with a gauge of 45 - 100. If I put the same gauge flat wound on as my rounds will it mess up my set up and neck. By mess up I mean more or less bow. Will I have to adjust my truss rods. The gauge of round I have on right now my tech told me the lower truss rod or maybe upper is as loose as it can be without going to a heavier gauge of strings which I don't want to do.

Any advice - will I need to get a new set up if I slap on some flats?

[coolingitdown]

Any time you change strings you will more than likely need to make small adjustments to the setup.

Flats and rounds come in all different tensions, so it will always be a case by case basis. You will likely have to eyeball the bass, make some measurements if you like, then change the strings, eyeball the bass, and make some measurements to see how the two sets of strings compare. Play the bass, see how the action feels, and see if there is any fret buzz (less likely with a set of flats). Then adjust accordingly.

[jps]

How hard do you play? That info may help in recommending strings. If you have or can learn to have a relatively light touch (a good thing) TI Jazz Flats are fantastic sounding on Ricks (and Jazz Basses), but are fairly low in tension, so if you play pretty hard you may encounter problems.

[TheCurvedEarth]

roundwounds are the best IMO.

[slave]

roundwounds are the best IMO.

...And I like flats more. I guess it just depends what tone we're all trying to achieve.

One big thing to note RE: differences between flats and rounds.
Rounds sound like rounds should straight away. Flats take a while to settle, but after a few weeks of solid playing they should sound killer for a VERY long time.
You may be a bit disappointed with flats to begin with, but persist, they'll get better.

As far as flats go in standard EADG, TI Jazz Flats are very light tension, Chromes are very nice, and the Roto's (think Steve Harris) are obscenely tight.
I personally tune to C, and use the 5-banger set of flatwound TI's tuned UP to C,F.etc.
I play with a very heavy right hand (pick and finger-style) and a slightly higher action than most because of this, but find the TI's a very nice tension - nice and easy for bending etc.

RE: setup.
I've found the sets of flats I've tried to vary in tension much more than the sets of rounds I've been through (10 years worth of rounds). Be prepared to have to do trussrod and intonation adjustments.

[coolhandjjl]

roundwounds are the best IMO.

It's all relative.

If you dig Macca's sound, you may prefer traditional sounding flats like LaBella DTB or Fender 9050CL's for a more open contemporary flats sound.

If you are a Chris Squire aficionado, roundwounds like Roto 66 or DR Hi-Beams will be more to your liking.

And if you can't decide, Circle-K rounds are a great all around string.

I have three Ric basses with Fender 9050CL's, DR Hi-Beams, and Circle-K's on them. And they all sound equally great to me!

[08 Ric 4003]

I have never played Roto's. I got my Jazz and Ric set up with Dean Markley 45 -100 rounds. I have heard good things about the Fender and D'addario flats. If Dean Markley made flats I would try them. I may slap some Chromes or Fenders flats on and give it a try. I may get a set if Circle K rounds one day. I guess I can only use them with my Ric. My Jazz is string through and the web site says they can't be used with string through.

[Tarrbot]

I have never played Roto's. I got my Jazz and Ric set up with Dean Markley 45 -100 rounds. I have heard good things about the Fender and D'addario flats. If Dean Markley made flats I would try them. I may slap some Chromes or Fenders flats on and give it a try. I may get a set if Circle K rounds one day. I guess I can only use them with my Ric. My Jazz is string through and the web site says they can't be used with string through.

I've never played the Fender flats but I can say that the Chromes are a great string to jump into the flats world with.

They sound great almost instantly and seem to get better with time.

I've recently taken my Roto flats off and put the Chromes back on for the fun of it and probably will leave them on for a while.

They just sound great with a good beefy round sound that can also pull off crispy attacks when needed.

[MaplegloMatt]

My .02 cents.......I used GHS Brite Flats for years but have recently switched to GHS Precision Flats (light gauge). They're not too bright but lots of thump and a very nice smooth feel. I also love the lowish tension of the light gauge.

[coolingitdown]

Any time you change strings you will more than likely need to make small adjustments to the setup.

Reading this again, let me clarify.

If you change gauge, brand, or type of string (flat, round, ground, etc...), you absolutely will need a new setup if you want the action to be similar to what you had before. If you change any of those factors, you will change the tension of the set, which changes the pressure exerted on the neck. Thus, your bass requires a new setup. The more different the new set of strings is from the old, the more dramatic the adjustments you need to make.

Hope that helps!

[iiipopes]

To answer the original question, all else being equal, there will be more mass in a flatwound than a roundwound of the same gauge, because with the ribbon wrap of a flat there are no "empty" spots or gaps where there are with round windings. More mass = more tension needed to get to the same pitch. So yes, you will probably need to tweak the truss rods if you go with the same gauge flats. That has been my experience in switching from rounds to flats on one of my basses.

[08 Ric 4003]

Here is what I found on a D'Addarrio's web site. So going from E to G we have a tension difference of 2 lbs , 1.7 lbs, .7 lbs and 3 lbs. And going to a lighter set of flats made the tension difference even worse. The only close one was the E at a 1 lb difference the rest we way off by 5 lbs or more.

Flat
Note inches mm lbs kg
G 0.045 1.14 45.7 20.73
D 0.065 1.65 52.0 23.58
A 0.080 2.03 43.7 19.82
E 0.100 2.54 38.4 17.41

Round
Note inches mm lbs kg
G 0.045 1.14 42.8 19.41
D 0.065 1.65 51.3 23.27
A 0.080 2.03 42.0 19.05
E 0.100 2.54 36.5 16.55

[weemac]

Daddario strings are very mismatched in tension...
I mixed a few sets of Daddario 40-100 with the Rickenbacker (made by you know who) 45-55-75-105 strings, and came up with:
40-55-75-100 and 45-60-80-105, one set is great for long scale basses and the other works well on a Rickenbacker and both sets have even tension across the board...
I have no idea why most string makers don't use these gauges...

One other thing to say for Daddarios, they seem to be the most "in tune" string that I know of although they go kind of dull fairly quickly..

emac.

[JakeK]

I'm not much of a bass player, so I like something that is nice and easy on my fingers. The solution: flatwound strings. They sound great, and give the bass a nice thump instead of the twang I get from rounds. Currently, on my Jazz bass, I have the old Fender flatwounds (they came in a package with a picture of a '57 Precision with green silk ends) on it and I couldn't be happier. I get a nice defined thump, which is all I want. Every musician I know comments on how nice, easy and smooth they are on their fingertips.

[iiipopes]

Daddario strings are very mismatched in tension...
I mixed a few sets of Daddario 40-100 with the Rickenbacker (made by you know who) 45-55-75-105 strings, and came up with:
40-55-75-100 and 45-60-80-105, one set is great for long scale basses and the other works well on a Rickenbacker and both sets have even tension across the board...
I have no idea why most string makers don't use these gauges...

One other thing to say for Daddarios, they seem to be the most "in tune" string that I know of although they go kind of dull fairly quickly..

emac.

YES, YES, YES!!! I've been advocating this for 30 years. Finally last year Fender did the same with adding the 9050CL flats set to their lineup with these gauges.

Now, a short history lesson: The "standard" set of 45-65-80 (or 85) -100, or even 50 as a G string, was developed due to the limitations of early bass amplification, so the signal from the E string didn't overload the amp or speakers, and the heavier than expected gauges on the interior strings was due to their being farther from the flat polepieces on a more radiused fretboard, hence the need for more mass to induce more signal from these strings through the pickup for balance. With modern basses having flatter crown radii, and many pickups having either crowned polepieces, adjustible polepieces, or crowned rails to match, and the advances of bass speaker technology (kevlar, neo, alloy coil windings, etc.) it's time to get the strings brought up to speed as well. The only thing about the 105, which Rotosound finally did on their venerable Swingbass, and what Fender has done on these reformulated flats, is to go to a multiple winding E string so it retains more overtones and therefore more consistent tone to the rest of the set.