When Did George go 12 String?

[idealassets]

I have just begun to get interested in the Beatles music, especially since I am a 12 string fanatic. Since I know I will get good results on this forum, here are a few things I want to find out:

1. What album was the last before George began using the 12 string? What album was the first that he used 12 string on? What albums were predominantly 12 string, and when did the Beatles finally "cool off" from using the 12 string?

2. When the Beatles began using 12 string, were they like the Byrds, where the 12 string was used on every song on those albums?

3. George got a real nice chimey sound out of his Gibson ES-335. On a song such as "Rain" it sounds almost as good as a 12 string. I don't see why they switched to Rickenbackers, after getting almost as good a sound from the Gibson hollow bodies.
But I know there was some good reason, since the Beatles were at the top for so long.

I alrerady play Byrds and Tom Petty material on either Guild or Rickenbacker 12 string. I will be adding some Beatles also. With a 12 string there is a good advantage since many acts do primarily Beatles 6 string cover songs.

Thank you,
Craig

[jps]

George did not get his 360/12 until February 1964, so that is a good target date for when he started using it, I think.

I alrerady play Byrds and Tom Petty material on either Guild or Rickenbacker 12 string.
Thank you,
Craig

A band that seems to slip under the radar often who used Rick 12 string guitars (and their basses) is the early Peter Gabriel era Genesis.

[brammy]

From http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/P ... eorge-413/

The acoustic 12-string guitar was a major fixture in folk circles in the early ’60s, a time when the folk boom helped the acoustic instrument to threaten the demise of the electric. Rickenbacker owner Francis Hall, at the helm of a company that had no competitive acoustic line, envisaged some crossover potential in a 12-string electric, and set his designers the task of producing one. Three prototypes received enthusiastic responses from the musicians who tested them, and he debut model settled into form as the 360/12 toward the end of 1963. Not long after this, in February 1964, The Beatles came to the USA for three concerts and a pair of appearances on the enormously popular Ed Sullivan show. Hall saw his chance: he took a 360/12 to The Beatles’ New York hotel to present to George Harrison to try out. Hall knew he had an in with the British beat-pop band, since Lennon had long played a short-scale Rickenbacker 325 six-string. Indeed, Harrison liked the new 12-string, and his approval—and subsequent use of the model—assured the 360/12’s success for all time.

Harrison used his new 360/12 on early tracks like “You Can’t Do That” and “I Should Have Known Better”, and brought it out for the majority of the songs on the 1964 album A Hard Day’s Night. The most famous Beatles Ricky 12-string moment is undoubtedly the title track to that outing, with its chimey intro chord and the stand-out lead break around the middle of the song. With exposure like this, every kid on both sides of the big pond was soon hankering for a 360/12, or just about any of those distinctive Rickenbacker designs that they could get their hands on.

[jimk]

It may be that the last time George used his 360/12 string was on "If I Needed Some One" on "Revolver." He used it on their tour of Asia in 1966. But by this time, he had switched to the modern 360/12 string with the rounded edges, the first one having been stolen.

Earlier, from about 1961-65 he had preferred various Gretsch six string guitars; the Duo Jet, and later the Tennessee Rose. By 1966 both he and Lennon had switched over to Epiphone Casinos. After that, it gets a little hard to keep track of, since the Beatles quit touring.
JimK

[chucksimms]

But by this time, he had switched to the modern 360/12 string with the rounded edges, the first one having been stolen.
JimK

The first wasn't stolen, was it? I believe the Harrison family still has it.

[kiramdear]

3. George got a real nice chimey sound out of his Gibson ES-335. On a song such as "Rain" it sounds almost as good as a 12 string. I don't see why they switched to Rickenbackers, after getting almost as good a sound from the Gibson hollow bodies.

Craig, you have the time line a bit confused. John played his rick since '59, and the others got theirs in '64 on their first American visit. More than a year later they began to favor the hollow bodies - those guitars were not Gibson ES-335s, but Epiphone Casinos which resemble ES-335s in body shape. By the time "Rain" was made in '66 they had largely laid their ricks aside, except for Paul who began to favor his 4001 over his old Hofner.

[paologregorio]

The Harrison Estate still has George's Signature,double bound 360/12 that he's most often pictured with-the first one. It was the second, round front 360/12 "New Style" that was stolen. The original is a much better looking guitar anyway.

[sloop_john_b]

The prevailing thought has always been that "If I Needed Someone" was the last Beatles 12-string song; however, recent isolations (thanks to Rock Band) have revealed that there is a really blatant electric 12-string in the bridge sections of "While My Guitar Gently Weeps". I've also always thought that "Getting Better" had some electric 12 in it but don't quote me on that.

That being said, it is not necessarily a Rick - John had received a Guild Starfire 12'er in '66 so who knows.

[242_foxtrot]

John. Also the first version of "And Your Bird Can Sing" has 12 string.

[sloop_john_b]

John. Also the first version of "And Your Bird Can Sing" has 12 string.

Yep! Good call Paul. This is on Anthology 2.

[jimk]

The Harrison Estate still has George's Signature,double bound 360/12 that he's most often pictured with-the first one. It was the second, round front 360/12 "New Style" that was stolen. The original is a much better looking guitar anyway.

OK, I stand corrected. I knew one of George's Ricks had been....lost.
JimK

[idealassets]

That being said, it is not necessarily a Rick - John had received a Guild Starfire 12'er in '66 so who knows.

Thats cool. I became a Guild history buff 1 year ago, when I bought my first Guild 12 string. I purchased my Ric 360/12 (MG) a month ago. The Guild Starfire series guitars are a very popular issue today, since under the ownership by Fender, the Starfire production was discontinued after around 2000. The Starfire is a very covetted guitar by Guild enthusiasts to the current day. Many blues players that like Guild have at least 2 of the 6 stringers.

The 12 string Starfire VII guitar is a hollow body with Humbucker pick-ups. However they sell for a reduced price compared to the Strarfire 6 strings. Perhaps there are plenty bucko players that will spring for the Ric, but know nothing of the Starfire 12 string.

For my first electric 12 string I definately wanted the Ric 360/12. I do like the Guild "cult following", but the Starfire 12 was just too obscure of a model for me to want to play it on stage. The Ric is a currently produced unit, not an "antique" such as a Starfire.

On another note I DO want to obtain a 1960's or 1970's Guild Stafrire I, or Starfire II hollow body bass. So if there is a nice condition one out there somewhere in Ric guitarland, just quote me a price, and email images to [email protected]

Back to the Beatles, it is wierd how George liked the 12 string Ric and the sitar, while John kept mainly cranking out that grunge guitar sound. Also I did not previously know that Paul played a Ric 4001 bass. I commend him on that choice, since if nothing else the Ric basses cetainly look cool. For sound, I do not yet know what is the best. But if I ever get up the cash to get a bass, it will be a Ric 4003, never a Fender (sorry Fender, no offense)

-Craig

[8mileshigher]

Craig, if you're just getting into Beatles stuff, and are enthused about Rickenbackers and 12-strings, etc. you may want to check out several books written about the Beatles gear which identify which guitars were played on which specific tracks on which specific songs. It will certainly add to your enjoyment and help tune your ear into where the Ric 12 string or where Paul's Ric bass are used on particular songs.

There are dozens and dozens of books on the subject of the Beatles .... written by all types of people who were involved with them over the years. Probably some books are available down at your local library. There are hundreds of thousands of Beatles listings on search engines.... so a lot you can delve into.

There are also several posts here on the Forum over the years, listing 12-string songs by the Beatles and I think I've also seen lists here for songs with John's 325 and Paul's 4001.

We on the sidelines will enjoy watching your Beatlemania blossom.

[Hotzenplotz]

The day George Harrison received his twelve-string was the 8th of Febuary 1964 in New York.

He was ill, stayed in the hotel and he (and the other Beatles) was visited by F.C. Hall.


(For details see: The Rickenbacker Book by Tony Bacon & Paul Day)


The first recording was made with this guitar on 25th of February 1964, EMI studio Abbey Road 2.
The first parts of the song were recorded on 29th January 1964 at the EMI studio in Paris.

The Beatles were looking for a good opener for "Can't Buy Me Love". After George has received his twelve-string they solved the problem with the Rickenbacker back in London. The typical "rrrrrrrrringggggggg" was recorded (combined with Pauls bass - as I know).

(For details see: The Beatles by Ian McDonald)

[idealassets]

OK, good now I know what book to get. It appears that George really didn't show off the 12 string very much in the first song that they produced with it. Perhaps it took some time to develop a sound other than background strumming.

I can visualize a very distinctive 12 string version of the song Rain, which I will add to my own song list. More than 40 years after the fact, it isn't all that difficult to do.

Craig